008: From Hallway Listener to Fluent Finnish Speaker - Jojo Pratt

So the teacher at some point. She couldn't close the door because I'm standing there. So she would leave the door like open so I can listen from the door. But then it got to a point, like she would ask a question and the only person who would give the answer is me from the door. Nobody can teach you Finnish. . You have to learn, Finnish, you have to learn it. You have to learn it.

So the day that I left the house, they took me to the bus station. I was supposed to take a bus to UDS and go to UDS in the northern region. Yeah. I took a taxi from the bus station, I went to the airport and then I flew out of the country. So my family had no idea that I was in Europe.

welcome to this episode of How I Learned Finnish with Ohe. And let's get to know our guest. Name

Jojo Pratt or Godson Pratt.

Age

37.

Profession.

Nurse.

Nurse.

What is your nickname?

My nickname is cyborg.

Cyborg,

yeah.

Okay. That's, is there a story behind it?

So people know me now as shy Baby. ? Yeah. . Majority of the people they know me as shy baby, but the original name Yeah. Is Cyborg.

Cyborg. Okay.

So the story behind why it became shy baby instead of Cyborg was, I got this name from my school master how do you call it? School Father .

'cause I went to high school in Ghana. So in Ghana, when you go to high school. You have a, no, sorry. Senior high school. Senior high school. So senior high school you have

boarding school.

Boarding school, yeah. So you have the, your school father. So my school father, when he saw me, because I was coming from the village, I was like very muscular. . So when he saw me, he was like, man, you look like a cyborg. Okay. In Ghana those days when you look like, when you look like you are too physically fit. Yeah. It is only a sign that you like, you are working too hard or too much. It's not like today that you say you are

because you go the gym.

fit guy . Yeah. Then it was like hard work, hard labor. So it became like, they used to tease me like, oh cyborg. So when everybody says you're a cyborg in that time, it means man.

That your cracked physically,

your life is, so you get idea. Okay. Okay, so then, because I was in a boarding school when we will go to the, to we used to go to like lady schools, like Fantima , girls, Wesley Girls Holy Child.

Which high school did you go?

Atisa.

Okay. I went to. Presbyterian boys,

bro, in Ghana there is two high schools.

Hey, don't do that. Don't do that.

There is two colleges, . Okay. Tell there at this school. And the rest. And the rest. Ah, okay. We also

exact say the exact same thing. There's my school and then the rest. But

it is not possible

like for a fact. But we always win the science competitions. I that got em got,

em can say that, but that's not how we judge, . Yeah. Yeah. So by, but by the standard we, we judge there's like adisko. Yeah. And the rest. So everybody else Premp , Achimota , but everybody,

They, part of the rest. Yeah. So it each their own personally. And we win a lot. If

somebody went to school in Ghana and they didn't go to Adisko they didn't go to a college. It is the only college in, in, in Ghana.

Okay. I think there's one that has a nickname. The word college. I the college in the name. . Okay. So that's all fair point. I'll give you that.

You get it?

I give you that. I,

so anyway, so when we go to the girls schools, yeah. I mean if they ask you that, what is your nickname? Because that's what usually they ask in that time. So you couldn't say Cyborg because if you say Cyborg yeah. Yeah. So it's like when you go to the lady school to visit . Like your girlfriend or something, and they ask you like, what is your nickname? You couldn't say Cyborg because that was like, very bad . So then I figured out okay shy baby is close to Cyborg, 'cause if I, if they ask like, why is your name shy baby? Then I say, oh, I'm very shy. So that's why they call me Shy baby. Okay. And that works with the girl, okay. So I think till then, if you see anybody who went to Adisko and ask them about shy baby. Yeah, they will know it's me. , the original name was cyborg. Yeah. . Yeah. But now, it's now fast forward because now fitness is appreciated and like that type of physi is appreciated. So now I can get the original name back. You know what I mean? 'Cause now when I tell you I'm a cyborg. Yeah. If you take a good look, you'll say, oh, it makes sense. You get it. Gotcha,

gotcha. Okay. That's funny. That's funny.

That's the story.

Yeah. And just for a quick context, so that's the. So not everyone who's listening is necessarily Yeah. Familiar with our context 'cause Sure. I'm from Ghana as well. That's why we yeah. Yeah. So I, we, I think there's parts that we might have to quickly explain so everyone gets it.

No problem.

But that the school father thing, or school mother thing is just so you're in a boarding school and then there's somebody who's been there before you. And they are, they somehow are a mentor or somebody you can go to for advice. . Or help you with issues and stuff like that. . And also it involves you sometimes having to give them gifts.

For sure. For sure. Because stuff, it's also like they also protect you from the other people who will come, like adisko, a very rowdy school. So to speak. So if you don't have a godfather, especially a godfather who is like influential . Then you are in a lot of trouble because anybody can come to you at any point in time and say gimme your food. Or they'll just like. Punish you or, do that, ? Yeah. So the Godfather is responsible to protect you and stuff

really from the trenches. Take your food.

Adisko for you.

Yeah. But yeah, so I just briefly how I found you. So I was just like, I got this light I'm using the light for now for the first time. I specialized lights for the first time. And I went to test it at my cousin's place. Yeah. And when I was there I was telling my auntie about the fact that I need, I needed to find people to interview. Yeah. Yeah. And then she just was like, oh, I know a guy I work with, blah, blah. And just picked up the phone. Yeah. And this was yesterday.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And it was yesterday. And then

I tried to also like. Have my speed of execution be very fast. So now less than 24 hours later, here we are recording. So Yeah. And we,

let's get it, bro. Let's get it,

and yeah, it's been, yeah. Pretty cool one. Yeah.

So briefly, how does Finland show up in your life story? What brought you here? How long have you been, which, when, all of that.

Okay. So to be honest, like Finland is not a country that I knew about. Before I came here it was like, like this, 'cause I was initially living in in London. Okay. So I wanted to go to university, in London. But I had done some research and then I found some schools that I wanted to go to. So I had applied and stuff like that. But then when I saw the tuition fee, at the time, it was like, what, I don't remember exactly, but it was between like 28,000 to 32,000 pounds.

For London?

Yeah. For foreign students, in London per year. And this doesn't even include your accommodation feeding and stuff like that. So I was like, okay, I will try to, get a job, work and save up some money. But then in the process, I heard about Finland and then I had, it's like free education, so then I was like, okay, if that is the case, then I would just, go to Finland, I didn't do the right thing, the right thing would've been to take my time, apply to the school and get into the school and then come as a student. But I was just like eager and desperate and . , I just came to Finland. I had no idea what language they speak, whatever. I didn't know anybody here So then I came, so the first year or so, I had to live in the refugee camp, yeah. As an asylum seeker for Red Cross, so that's how it started for me.

Wow. Wow. Which year was this?

So this is like end of 2009,

2000?

Yeah. Somewhere in around end of August or like early September, something like that. Okay. Yeah. 2009. . So that's like a long time ago,

yeah. I came also, was it oh eight?

Oh eight. Okay. Okay.

Okay. I came summer of oh eight.

So that's pretty close. Yeah. Yeah.

But then I learned minimal Finnish until like I grew up, and then I was like, This is starting to affect my pocket.

Oh, yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

So I need to learn it.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

And then, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So 2009. . But wait, so you just just packed of bags, just showed up and, did you even have it anywhere like you were gonna live?

I think when you are young, you are naive also, and the thing is for me, I always say, you figure things out. And especially like sometimes because I grew up a little bit in the village, so I remember like what life used to be like. And then because I've been to London before and stuff like that, I know like no matter how bad it is, it cannot be as bad as, like living in a village or something like that. So it didn't bother me, like I knew that I will figure it out. If one thing that I didn't know, that there's like something called winter and it's very cold because I thought that I could survive even living on the street for a while to figure things out.

Yeah.

But man, I didn't know that, there's something called winter because even if you live in London, the winters in London is nothing. You can survive with a hoodie and, like a vest and stuff like that. Yeah. Man. Finnish winter is different. So I'm always grateful to Red Cross and stuff like that because, they took me in immediately and then I got an accommodation and then that's just how everything started for me. Pretty much yeah. I was lucky 'cause I didn't even have to be a day on the street.

Wow. Okay. That's great then. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. But that is very remarkable though. That's throw yourself in the deep end and just figure it out.

When you're young you can do anything.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's how it was for me. But the thing was like, I I believed, that I will figure it out someway. Somehow, 'cause I had a passion and then I knew that okay, if it's free education . I will figure it out. So I was just literally going after the education. That's it. Like everything else didn't really bother me like that.

And you said you were 21 when you came

at the time? Yeah. About 21.

Yeah.

About, yeah. So 2021 thereabout, ?

Because, yeah. Okay. And so when you arrived what like prompted you.

Yeah, to learn the finnish language. Was there like a turning point or specific need or,

I think when I

go to the airport, .

I quickly understood that this is a very different language country. 'cause you know what, I was used to England. . England is like English speaking country. And we are from Ghana, so English speaking country. So you get there, you can just speak the language.

And you went to a good high school as well. So . You would know how to speak English well,

pretty much. Even though Adisko we speak more broken English

but yeah.

But anyway, so when I go to the airport, I understood immediately that man, like this is a very different language speaking country. To be able to survive here, I'm gonna have to learn, the language. So that was like first, like when I first got the idea. Then again, also like when I came to Finland, I knew that I'm gonna be here for a very long time. So I have to learn the language. That was, that was like. On my mind from the airport. So after that, I just like figure out okay, how can I learn the language? . Yeah. So and when you live in the refugee camp.

Yeah.

So literally it's in the refugee camps, they have a lot of programs like that helps you with integration and learning. The finnish language is also part of, the camp system. . Yeah. So in the camp they have how do you call it? Classes. ere they teach, Finnish. . Obviously it's not like everybody's not a hundred percent motivated to go to those classes. Yeah. Because I realized like people have different mentalities, so depending on what mentality you had. . And then you decide you want to learn, Finnish or not. You get a point. .

But my mentality was like, I'm gonna be in this country. I need to know this language and do whatever it takes to learn the language. . So that's,

for me, that's how we started. So the mentality aspect. Yeah.

Very important. Very important. Very important.

I, what is it called? I relate to that because for me, 'cause I was, I only learned it properly. . In 2022. Okay. Even though I had been Really? Yeah, man, because I, and the thing is I came, I was 12. And I went to English school the entire time.

Really?

So we had finnish class the same way. We had the same way when in French, in Ghana you have French class French. Yeah. But you don't remember anything. So I had, and then maybe my, my, my Finnish, maybe it was a little bit better than what the French class example is, because in Ghana you don't speak French. Here we speaks Finnish. It's reinforcing. But I never took it, like my mentality was not like, it was just, I'll go there and pass class and then Yeah. Just, but also I was

That's quite interesting though, 'cause like when you're like 12 . Pretty much when you hung with your friend

you speak Finnish. But I didn't even have that, those kind of things. Okay. That's one of the things that kind of annoyed me about my childhood now. I really wanted to be like into football, like to do more football. . But when I went to the hobby stuff, my coaches didn't speak English. And I didn't speak Finnish.

Finnish. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, it just, so I was You watch football, right?

Not really. Not really.

Okay. But basically I was fast. So basically the whole strategy was regarding me was long and I'll run fast and go get it. So I didn't understand, and one of the things that annoys me about the fact that I've followed football so long, but my understanding of it is so low. Because I didn't understand what was going on. I just know the ball needs to go in the goal and I'm athletic so I can do that. That was all.

But did you have did you think you're gonna move out of Finland somewhere? Because I realize that's also what happened to a lot of people because they think like they're gonna move to England or USA or stuff like that so they don't need Finnish.

That is a very good point. But then I think in my case, because I was a kid, I just didn't have a grasp of the world of what is important. What is not important. So yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's, so it's just, I was in, in English school. Okay. My grades are great. My doing good. My life is fine. Until I grew up and I realized, oh, yeah, I'm, I got my first job. I'm like, everybody I see in higher up positions,speaks finnishh . Or is finnish . Yeah. If I don't, I, and also a lot of these kind of career progression things, they come by because somebody likes you. Exactly. Nobody's gonna like you if they can't connect with you like that.

Hundred percent. Hundred percent.

Yeah. So that's when I like started putting it two and two together. . It's just only around 2022. And I was like, okay, I with the little, I know. Let me work on it and get myself to the full thing. And then I just really,

but you picked it up really fast though. 'cause even yesterday when I spoke with you on the phone, we spoke, Finnish. I like, I thought like you were born here or something.

Oh wow. Thank you man. Thank you.

Yeah. So that's really interesting.

Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah. I think the only advantage I, I got from, or one of the major advantages I got from having come here young. And having. Done it in class, the school. Yeah. Was that my pronunciation?

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Is the accent and stuff is a lot, there's a lot better back in that one. Yeah. I think that's the only thing that, that's even what made me taught like, you might have been born here because when you listen to somebody who came here and learned the language later on Yeah. Mostly you can hear from the accent,

precisely. Precisely. So I got,

man, good job, bro. Good job.

Thank you. Thank you.

Good job.

But you said earlier that you realize that you're gonna be here a long time. . What made you think that? 'cause a lot of people don't necessarily feel that way when they come here.

Yeah. But the thing with me when I came was like long or short story. Ooh,

I love stories and yeah, we got time. That's

so the longer story Yeah. To cut the, I would try to cut it as short as possible.

Okay.

So me initially I always wanted to go to school abroad. , I didn't want to go to school in Ghana. That was like it's always, I don't know where it came from, but I always had that. And, because I went to , this adult college. . So you can understand the type of friends that I had in high school. So in Adisko, when you go to Adisko, you either go to Lagon k-N-U-S-T. Yeah. Or you go abroad. That was like the, there was nothing in between. Usually if you go to Adisko , it's like you go to Lagon, you go to K-N-U-S-T, or then you fly outside of the country. So most of my friends had already gone to, United States, uk, and then those who stay in Ghana went to Lagon and stuff like that. , I didn't get into any of those schools and so my uncle wanted me to still go to university, so he had gotten admission from me, from UDS. . And UDS is like in the northern region. Yeah. So I'm thinking like, man, I'm like Adisko boy. I cannot do that, it's not possible. . So I made up my mind that I'm gonna go to Europe. . So what actually happened was like the day that I was supposed to, because, they had paid my admission and everything. So the day that I left the house, they took me to the bus station. I was supposed to take a bus to UDS and go to UDS in the northern region. Yeah. I took a taxi from the bus station, I went to the airport and then I flew out of the country. So my family had no idea that I was in Europe.

What?

Yeah.

What?

So that's

Oh, I feel like the long story is gonna be really good.

Yeah. So that's why I'm like, long and short. So then they will, I had mtn that time with roaming, so I put a lot of air time on it.

So that if they call me roaming, I can pick up and answer. So they would call me all the time, how are you doing? How is school, . I would say, yeah, school is fine, everything is cool. But after four months, right now the school is on vacation, so come home, I'm supposed to go home. Yeah. And now I cannot go home. And, I try to talk them like, I wanna study, I want, they just man, it's been four months, just come home. So at this point, I cannot go home. So I made a decision that, okay, what can I do? I turn off my phone and then I try to cut contact.

Yeah.

So that it means okay, now I'm stuck in Finland because I can never go home because soon they will find out. And then it's like case closed for me. So I knew I'm gonna be in this country for a very long time. . So I didn't have a choice. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's like the, Yeah. So it was like, eventually I had to call them because, they were very worried about me obviously, because, Northern region is very different. And they knew that I've never been outside of. Outside of going to Adisko in the in Cape Coast, I'd never been outside of Accra before. So then now when they didn't hear from me, they couldn't get any contact with me. They thought something had, happened to me and stuff like that. So they start to report on radio, tv, trying to find me and stuff like that. And then I was like, okay, I need to call home. So then finally I called home and I said to them like, listen guys, I wanted to go to school Europe.

Yeah.

I didn't want to go to UDS, but I didn't know how to say it at the time.

Yeah.

But I'm here, I'm safe. And then they was like, okay, where are you? . So then I give them all the information. My uncle came from London to verify, if that you are yeah. And then when he came, like luckily in that time I already had the finnish girlfriend who lived, so my uncle didn't even know that officially I was living in a refugee camp at the time.

Oh, wow.

So I just say, I live with my girlfriend and then we went to her home and stuff, so everything was okay. But because of that, I knew that I'm gonna be here for a very long time. . And then also when you come as a refugee, you don't know if you get a resident permit or not. , okay. Because, if you come with a student, you get a student visa. So you can leave as a normal person. But if you come as a refugee you don't know.

Oh, they decide that later.

Yeah. Yeah. But the thing also is at that time, a regular process took two years. So I knew that in, and then they had it, if you get admitted into university . Then you can convert into a student visa. So I knew that, I only need just like about a year or something to figure out my admission. . And then I can convert it, yeah. So even that's how it worked out eventually, because they didn't give me resident based on the refugee status. Yeah. But I had already, got it into the university, so then it was like.

Oh my. Yeah. We need to do a part two, because there's, so we, I need to do a part where I just in interview immigrants and Just for stories?

Yeah, just for stories, because Oh, man, you have no idea the type of stories you hear. It's crazy

because this there's so much unpack here, but I'm like, we need to keep it on topic.

Let's get to the point. Let's get to the point. Let's get to

that point. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Okay. 2009 you arrived and now two, 2000, and now we're in 2025. Yeah. At which point, 'cause I would say you speak on like a C level. C level. Yeah. At which point did you feel like you reached C, the C level of fluency?

I don't, the thing is like every day you learn something new and then every day you also when you come to Finland first and then you start to learn the language. Yeah. You don't know that there is like different accents. For you, everything's down the same. Yeah. . But obviously as you progress from, learning the language. To understanding how different people communicate. 'cause like when I first came where I lived in the refugee camp, that was like Imatra. So people from Imatra, they speak completely different from people from TurTurku ,

right?

Yeah. So then when I moved from Turku , then I was transferred to another refugee camp. Eh, sorry. When I moved from Imatra refugee camp, I was transferred to another refugee camp in Turku . . Yeah. So then when I go to Turku , I realized that people spoke completely different, and then I moved from Turku to Salo. And then you realize again people speak a little bit different, and then you come to Helsinki. So you always realize you never arrive or you never like fluent enough. But, and then also because of my job, with nursing, there's a lot of workplace terminologies, So then also, like every now and then, you hear a new word that you never had before. So then you have to come in and get familiar with it, so I don't think like you get to that point where. You like, you can say you are fluent enough. Because even finns, you realize, like some of them, they never heard some of the words before,

. But like, when did you cross the line of en entering into like C level fluency?

I think okay, the basic standard thirst is the JKi test, right? . So once you pass that, you realize okay, you made it

right. But then my what is, is it called , let me counterpoint that. . So when you get the JKi test, which is where a lot of people just stop trying.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

But the things like I, when I spoke to you . You were way beyond. And for my purposes of like, when I say it was affecting my pocket . And being able to connect with people. . B level is not that, that JKI is B level. You need a lot more that you need like a whole lot like aggressive effort. More than that. So

a hundred percent.

Yeah. So I'm, what I'm saying is like yeah I, I don't think that's a good place to stop. Yeah. And that's actually one of the reason why I'm doing this because So many people stop at that point.

A hundred percent. Hundred percent. I think for me also, the most important thing is I ask you a question that when you are 12 years old. So then quickly I figured out, okay, you must have hung around with kids who also spoke English. You understand? When I came to Finland, I was very lucky because I didn't have any friend, like my friends, they didn't speak English. Oh. So literally I would be with my friends and then I will have dictionary.

Yeah.

And the paper. So if they said something, , I would show them the dictionary. . And then like they will point out the word and then I would look like, what does it mean in English. Because they didn't speak English like so every type of conversation that communication that we had . Was in English, except on my part, I had to keep the dictionary. 'cause otherwise I didn't understand it.

Understand what? Okay. Okay. And

I didn't try to speak English with them because then I wouldn't learn Finnish. You understand? So I got that that like formative kind of years. And I've still like most of my friends outside of work, they're still the same,

they don't, you don't use English much.

Now some of them do speak like good English. . But because we have always spoke Finnish, it comes like automatic language amongst us. Yeah. And then when I'm at work, also, literally you're speaking Finnish, right? Finnish. . So it's and then. Even with my girlfriend, we speak Finnish, so I have that like, how do you call it? Practice enough so that I can build up and up, yeah. Yeah. But I realize like most people, even with their partners, they are like speaking English and then, with their friends, they're speaking English and stuff like that. Yeah. Finnish is like a practical language, yeah.

If you don't using it all the time, it's not gonna . And even now, 'cause 'cause when I achieved the goal in 2022, then I got this job as a consultant . Where I was using Finnish. So it is it even helped it even more in, until I did that 20, 22, 2023, 2024. And then now I've switched to another company where I'm gonna be speaking only pretty much English. If I want to, I can speak fully English.

Yeah.

But then I, I. I've also noticed that as soon as now I don't, I'm not using it much. . It already starts weakening. It already starts weakening and then It's oh

yeah. That, that happens a lot,

yeah. But also one thing I've, one phenomenon I've noticed is that for English speakers . The people who pick up Finnish the fastest are people who don't speak English. . And for English speakers, because pe a lot of people in finland speak know how to use English. In the system, some what has a lot of English. We tend to struggle to catch up to it. For example, my case, yeah. In my case, 'cause I literally went to English school. If I hadn't gone to English and i had gone to finnish school, I would be like, maybe like 1, 2, 3 years I would be set,

Yeah.

But so it's it's got, I feel like your. Point about the fact that your friends didn't speak English. . So you were forced to communicate in a third common language, which is finnish . Which is finnish at the time. Yeah. But that really helped your situation.

Yeah. Yeah. But then again, also, bro, the thing is I had two experiences. . Because when I first came, like I said, I lived in the refugee camp. Yeah. That was like experience number one. So I saw how people at that time were like, it was very difficult to get into the Finnish language class. It was like super competitive. The people at that time really wanted to learn, Finnish,

To get into the class.

To get into the class. Oh, so

there wasn't enough space for everyone.

It wasn't enough space. Okay. So it's even me, I got to the class in a record breaking time. 'Cause normally it takes you have to live in the camp for six months to a year before it's your time to go to the class.

But

the thing with me was like, I always showed up at the door. I would stand by the door and then listen. So the teacher at some point. She couldn't close the door because I'm standing there. So she would leave the door like open so I can listen from the door. But then it got to a point, like she would ask a question and the only person who would give the answer is me from the door. She was like,

come on in,

come inside. But I saw also that time, even in the class, we were like competing a lot. There was like people from where, like Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq at the time.

Yeah.

And we will compete, like who speaks Finnish the best. So that was like experience number one.

Right now, the when I, like after I graduated nursing, like from university, I went back to the refugee camp again this time to pay back. Okay. ' they had given me like I told you, if it wasn't because of them, I would've lived on the street. . And then, like with my culture, when somebody gives you something. You always give back. So I was like, okay, how can I give back? Yeah. And I thought okay, I will go back to the refugee camp and get a job and work there for a year. So that, this, I had just graduated as a nurse. So going back there to work, the salary at that time was almost like thousand euros less or something. But I was like, okay, this is worth it. Doing your part. Exactly. So I went back to the refugee camp to work and the, one of the reason why I wanted to also go there to work was like, I realized like when you come to Finland and like at the refugee camp or like anybody who is your first point of contact, you decide what your life in Finland is gonna be based on the first people that you meet. So I realized like if I go back to the camp and people see me there and then they realize okay, this guy came here as a, as us as a refugee , and he learned to speak Finnish and then he managed to go to university and now he has a degree.

Yeah.

And now he can get a job. Then I also have the same possibility.

And you have the same effect on their lives.

Exactly.

Ooh, damn bro. Lemme, let me, okay, I see you. I respect that. I respect that.

That was my initial thought. . So that's, I went to get a job there and Yeah. I'm getting goosebumps. That was good. That was good. Yeah. But I realized that time had changed so much, because now the, when I was working there, the most of the people who lived there, I'm saying most of them because I also saw extraordinary people who were like, like us back in the day trying to get into the finnish class, trying to learn. But I realize like this time around people were not so interested in learning the language because now their mentality was, I want to get the resident permit first. . And then if I know that I'm gonna stay in this country, then I will learn the language. So now the finnish classes were empty most of the time. We would struggle to get people to the classes. And that was like very interesting for me because I remember when I was there. To get into the class was not easy. So I realized like somehow the mentality had shifted, yeah. Yeah. So that's why I say mentality also is like very important,

do you, 'cause when you came, you said you could switch from, if you get admission into to a higher education place, then you could switch to that kind of visa, right? . Is that possibility still there, or That has changed? I

think like the possibility is still there. . But I don't know how easy it is nowadays to come as a refugee anymore.

Ah,

yeah. Because this is 2009 was different, I think even all the way up to 2016.

Yeah.

It was still pretty flexible, but now, like there's been like Yeah. A lot changes. A lot of changes. Changes, . But I think like still it is very possible because, once you get admitted into the university, . You can always apply for the student visa, ? Yeah. The only difference is then it was completely free. So it didn't, they didn't , yeah. There's that elements too. Yeah. Yeah. So there was that element of it was free. . And then because you lived in the refugee camp, so you had a place to stay. . And you had food to eat, so you didn't literally have to provide any, anything either than the acceptance, letter from the university. Yeah. . So now it's it's changed a lot, but I still think like you can still convert into a student visa. . That's if you get to, if you manage to get

the admission. Exactly. Yeah. But then, yeah, but then now it costs . A lot. . And if you're in a refugee state, you are not necessarily, you don't have the funds for Yeah.

But I think still if you're refugee, then it's like still free for you. . Yeah. If you're a refugee, you get appointed. . . Because literally when you're a refugee, especially if your process is still ongoing . Then you have almost like similar. No. Residents, but you have like similar how do you call it? Opportunities as the residents. Okay. In a way, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fair.

Yeah. But just, okay. That's something actually worth looking into, why it's changed or how

Yeah. I, even though it's changed, I think it hasn't changed for everybody because still it is free for residents and people on A status visas.

No, I meant like why the desire to join the Finnish class has gone down.

Yeah. That was also something that was interesting to me at the time because, I was surprised that, okay, like even if you're not going to be, because I've seen this time and again, even when I was in the university, . So my, when I was in the university, our course was completely in English. We were taught in English. It is not like we were taught in Finnish or anything like that, but still we had to go outside of the school to learn, Finnish. So I remember like those of us who got our first jobs in the, like old people's home. That was like the best place you could learn, Finnish, because the old people, they didn't speak English. . And the old people also, they were not shy to correct you. Right now it depends on your own attitude. Because I saw like some of the people, if the old people corrected them, they felt oh, they felt offended and stuff. But I was always excited because if they would correct me, now I know how to say the right thing. You get it . So like the old people for me was like one of the best places to learn to practice the language. But I have many I have a few friends who were in the same school as me and their idea was like, yeah, I'm not gonna let Finnish because the moment I graduate I'm gonna move to England or us. The problem is some of them are still here.

That's the thing. Even it happened, the same things with my parents. My parents were here. For 20 ish years. Yeah. Yeah. And apparently, according to them, their whole mindset was that, oh, when we're done, we're not staying here long. Exactly. We're not staying long. Exactly. And then boom, 20 years are fast.

Yeah. Yeah.

So it's

yeah. So I saw that when I was in school. . And then I realized, okay, now you guys are, you are still here. You didn't move. . And the only reason why they also couldn't move is because they couldn't speak the language. They couldn't get the passport

also. Ah, that's true.

So now they're stuck. Yeah. You get it. And then when I went to the refugee camp, and then I saw that again, that, okay, now this was like most of the people, that was their mentality that Yeah. I'm not sure if they're gonna gimme resident permit, so why do I need to learn the language? Language? . If they're gonna send me back then,

and then that was the point.

Some of them, their process took seven, eight years. . And then you are like eight years here. You haven't learned the language Now when they even gave you the resident permit, because you have been so long without learning the language. Now you have also missed a lot of. Opportunity to practice the language. . So that's why, for me, like mentality is like, of course there's a lot of different variables that, play into can you really learn a language when you're older or not. But also there's like the motivational aspect you,

because if you immediately, if you think you cannot do it, then immediately you cannot. You cannot. It's,

yeah, that's the thing

Okay. So in your like learning journey what things worked and what things didn't. I,

okay. So I think for me, also, one of the things that worked, or two of the things that really worked well were like, number one I wanted to learn the language. . And I knew that I wanted to learn the language, so I would like figure out like, what are the ways that I can learn the language, ? So at that time I figured out okay, the classroom was number one, but. Outside of the classroom, you need to practice the language.

Yeah.

So I had my dictionary, which is Finnish to English. English to Finnish. . That was number one. And then I would in intentionally go to the shop or go to even like the Bao or something like

that.

And then I would practice everything that I learned that day. So that's what I used to do. And then on in the evening, at that time, there was like I think a software or something like that, it was called like pimsler language or something. Okay. So like now it's if you look at, if I think Duolingo and those type of thing.

Yeah.

In that time there was one that was like, I think it was called Pimsler. . So it was, I think Pimsler was one doctor who was like how do you call it? He was a linguistics professor or something like that. So he was teaching like people how to learn language and learn it fast. Yeah. So I had that software as well.

Yeah.

Then I would use that in the evening to like. Practice. So if I'm going to the shop tomorrow . And then I'm gonna buy like rice or stuff like that, I would first learn how to write what I wanna buy. And then I would use the pimsler to learn how to pronounce what you know. You get it. So then when I go to the shop, I would use everything that I know, and when I run out of words . Then I will consult the, the dictionary. So that's what I did it. So it was like practicing the language. I think that's what worked for me the most. 'Cause like I've seen many people also who have gone to Finnish language classes for like years. Like literally seven years. . And then they cannot really speak it speak language. Yeah. But the thing is like, practicing the language is even more better than understanding like how to read or write it, . So I think one of the things that worked for me most was like. Number one, because I really wanted to learn the language. . And then number two, because I was willing to practice the language. It didn't bother me if I said something wrong. . And somebody corrected me.

Yeah.

Yeah. I always said, this is not my mother language. Yeah. So if I say something wrong and then some, somebody correct me, it doesn't bother me. Except in certain cases where it was like really funny because, when you write in finnish sometimes you could write something. . And then if you miss like the two dots on top, then it means something else. It would read completely something, yeah. So there was like one point I saw, like I was in town.

Yeah.

And I saw my friend's mother, so I had text my friend in Finnish that, I just saw your mother, but just be, because I left the. dots ä Ah. So I know where he is going. So my friend was like, what? So he was getting aggressive, I was like yeah. What did I write?

Yeah. So then it was, it still didn't bother me. And just for context, so it's like I saw your mother. But without the a, with the two dots, ä then it means I had intercourse with your mother, Yeah. Yeah. So then, yeah, that's completely different things.

He was getting aggressive. So yeah, I've had those type of incidences before where yeah, because I was writing something really wrong, they always figure it out. So I think that's also, that's what helped me in a way,

yeah. That's funny. Yeah. And what, but what things did you try that you feel didn't help? What methods study stuff you feel

help. So the learning stages was like, I think I try to get ahead of myself. . Because the thing is when you meet a Finn, right? Yeah. There, there are a few questions that they will ask you repeatedly. Repeatedly, ? And the first question they will ask usually is it could be like, where are you from? . And then how long have you lived here? And then do you speak Finnish? So depending on how long you say you've lived here, then your question about did you learn Finnish or not, then it would, it'll determine what type of reaction they will have. So if a Finn meets you and they say okay, you are from Ghana, for example, and you have lived here for a year. . And then they ask do you speak Finnish? Usually they'll ask you straight in Finnish "Puhutko suomea?", So if you answer like. Oh yeah, I can speak a little bit that. And you start to speak and then they think oh wait, you've been here just a year and you can speak this much. They they're happy, they're excited, they try to motivate you and stuff. Yeah. But when they ask you how long have you been here? And then you say 10 years, then they speak, Finnish to you. Do you speak? And then the response is then they're thinking like, so for me, when I started to really try to speak, Finnish, it was like really early, like four months to six months.

I had just literally been here like four months and six months. So they were like, wow, like you've been here six months and you can speak this much. . So then it was like, it was getting into my head at the time. So I tried to get like really ahead of myself,

like to study even more and more.

Exactly.

Okay.

No. Get ahead of myself was like, I had even stopped doing the things that I was doing that was working. . And then I just tried to figure it out. Like just speak. But then I realized that, okay, that was not really working for me because now I was like getting stuck a lot. Okay. You get a point.

So then I went back into doing the basic things, and then like it just took off from there. You get, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So now fast forward, I wouldn't necessarily, I would say it still worked, . Because I just one day got to a point where I could just have a conversation.

Conversation, yeah.

Without necessarily looking back to the dictionary or trying to figure out, like, how do you say this? I like figure out okay, if I can just put this words together like this and like that, I would even hear it myself if I say something wrong. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. So the things that you feel like didn't work for you would be the fact that you got ahead of yourself? Yeah.

And then I stopped doing the basics.

Yeah. You, yeah. You were, yeah. Reaching too high.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Exactly.

Okay. Yeah.

And I was, so the question like what like resources you use and then which ones surprised you at how useful or useless they were? But I think,

Yeah. So I think like I said, I already mentioned like pimsler. Yeah. At the time, I think now is more like Duolingo, stuff like that. . The thing that you know, surprised me the most was like the dictionary, okay. Because I realized, the dictionary is it takes a lot of action to find a word. Word. . And then when you find the word, because you are like, you are really looking and stuff like that, you are also like very present, so I realized, like the dictionary made me remember the words like. Way more than if I just went free styling. . 'cause sometimes free styling, I would just forget the words. But then when I go back, when I had the dictionary, I would look at the word like maybe, a lot of times Yeah. Before I remember okay, this is what this word mean. So even the time when I would try to be without the dictionary, I would use my brain and try to remember what was the word? Yeah. You get the point. Yeah. Yeah. But because I saw it so much in the dictionary, it was easy to remember, yeah. So I think like for the software, it was easy because the software is you can even type what you wanna say. . And then you press play and then it will tell it to you.

And because you, and you feel like, because. That makes it a little too easy, so yeah. With , with Manually doing it, you engage your brain more. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Got, so that's what I thought. And then it was like, the dictionary was also funny. Like people will laugh. Wait, you have a dictionary with you? Like, when I'm having conversation with my friends

Yeah.

And they would say something and I don't understand. I was like, hold on a minute, I will pull out my dictionary. Okay.

So they're like, Jojo, what

are you doing?

Yeah. But actually this is an interesting point you're making now about the more effort you put and it engaging in your brain. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. I, when I was learning, I had this thing where every, so I was trying to read books, and if I came across a word I didn't know, I would write it in my Excel sheet. Exactly. And then I'll later on go find the definition. Yeah. And example sentences, that part was important. . Example sentences. And I did that manually. And I was. Because 20 that was 2022. And then charge GPT came out in 2 23. Okay. And I was like, I was so annoyed. Like I did all that work. . But then now that you say this, you have a point. . Because if I had just put it in chat GPT. It would've made it a little too easy. I don't engage my brain as much. So

Hundred percent. A hundred percent. Even now you can realize, like when you're doing interviews, right? . Sometimes you can use Chat GBT to write the script. And, or even the questions and stuff like that. Yeah. You forget those easily than if you, yourself sit down and then you use your brain to really think about the question and write them. So I realize sometimes, Chat gpt is good

Yeah.

It does a lot. It makes a lot of things like easy for us. . But sometimes when it comes to things that really you need to remember, especially like when you're doing interview, it's like sometime you need to have a conversation than question and answers, . So when you are looking at questions and asking, and then you're getting the answers and you're always looking, it's not the same as when you, yourself, like you sit down and then manually you do the thing. . Then it's even if you get to the point where you don't have to even look at the questions, your brain like brings, brings it out in a way,

Fair point. Yeah. Okay. And, and you said, yeah. So he surprised you the one that surprised you, was that

the most dictionary? Pretty much,

yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I think you've already mentioned the fact that like you did the courses in the refugee camp.

For sure. For sure. For sure.

And then also, like all your friends did not speak . English. So you had to force yourself to yeah. And dictionary and then, okay.

And what observations have you made about other people

learning Finnish?

Yeah.

You mean those who managed to learn or those who are struggling to learn?

This is not, I've not specified this question because I want you to feel free to go in any direction you want.

Yeah. So like I said, because for me also sometimes when you are exposed to languages, . The way your brain works when it comes to languages is different. So at some point, because I thought learning Finnish was very easy, that's what I thought. But now, like in later years, I realize like it was more difficult for most than it was for me. And so I try, I started thinking like, why is that? But then, I took myself like all the way back to childhood. So I realized for me, even when I was a child, I had an incident where, you know I think because in the first 10 years of my life, I lived in a village. Okay. So I lived in the Volta region. . So where I lived, literally, we spoke Ewe.

Okay.

Ewe. And then some people spoke like maybe Togolese or, because it was pretty close to the Togo border. . So some people speak, that type of language. So I didn't speak English, I didn't speak twi , I didn't speak nothing. I only spoke Ewe. And then just one day my, my mother took me to my father in Accra. So all of a sudden I ended up in Accra. And nobody spoke Ewe . And I didn't speak English. So again, as a child, I was in that same situation where,

once again,

I am in a place where people didn't speak the language. But obviously in that time I was like 10 years old. So it didn't take a long time. I could speak all the languages that, everybody spoke. And in that time people spoke, tree tiga, haa, I just picked it up,

picked those up.

So then I'm thinking like, okay, is it because my brain has figured out, like sometimes for me, like language becomes like a survival thing. Yeah. 'cause it's as a kid, maybe if I didn't learn the language, I could not communicate with anybody in Accra. So I had to learn the language. And then when I came to Finland also it was the same thing. I knew like for me to be able to survive in Finland and get a good job and stuff like that, I need to know the language. So I was thinking like, maybe is it, was it that easy for me compared to other people? Because maybe those people, they don't have that kind of like. The edge to survive, maybe they don't have it. Okay, I need to learn this language so that I can survive. 'Cause it's really there's a lot of my friends that we came at the same time and we've been through the same systems and stuff like that, and they barely can speak Finn. So like we were in the same refugee comes, we like literally went through similar systems. . But then they just cannot speak finnish . And so I was thinking like, okay, maybe it's not as easy as I thought. It might be easy for me because of the survival aspect, because I look at it from that frame. Yeah. Maybe

I, I think it has also a lot. Okay. One, there's the fact that like you did not, you knew you were gonna be here long. . You did not want to like, definitely did not wanna fail. Especially considering the circumstances under Richard came, which just oh yeah. Like you told your parents are going here that you went Yeah, I didn't have a choice. Yeah. Yeah. So that was like, so you, wherever, whatever it is that you. You alternative, you chose for yourself, you had to have it succeed.

A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent.

And then also the, but I think the biggest one is just the the mindset and the conscious decision to just I'm doing this and it has to work.

Exactly.

There's no other way.

And the thing is if you ask me the question that if everybody does that, can they learn the language? Absolutely. Yes. That's what I believe.

Same.

Yeah. But except that I don't think, like people, especially if you live around Helsinki I don't think like you, people are willing to put in that work. Because in, in Helsinki, pretty much you can survive without Finnish,

right? Yeah. You can go with English and Exactly. And I think it's like nobody wants to be out of their comfort zone.

Exactly.

So it's, but this requires a. E extreme amount of just being outside of your comfort zone.

Hundred percent. Hundred percent.

Because for me, mine was just an intense one year process. Because I knew if I just will that one year after that it would be, things would go well. Oh yeah. But that one year, because I literally just woke up on first January. . And post it on Instagram, LinkedIn, everywhere. If you know me and you speak Finnish, we're only speaking Finnish. So all the previous relationships I had with people where our default language is English. I was able to switch it, just instant to, to Finnish because I didn't wanna have that conversation over and over with people, Hey, let's speak, Finnish now. Let's be finnish now. And I have to kind force my environment to be as I wanted to, I have to force my environment to carry me to my goal. . That kind of, that was that.

Yeah. I think that works. And like when you ask what have I observed? Yeah. Like nowadays, I realize like when a lot of people, like even at my work, there are some colleagues, they always ask me like, Jojo , how did you learn? Finnish tell me. Immediately I asked them like, do you have a partner or something? And they say, and I said, okay, you speak English with your partner, right? They say, yeah. I said, why don't you speak Finnish with your partner? And he was like, yeah, because we are, we've always spoke, English, I get it. But the thing is you can speak English if you want. . But the more you speak English is you're not gonna learn, Finnish. And sometimes also is when I go to the shop, for example, and I'm in the I'm behind somebody, ? And then they go to the cashier and they look like a foreigner, right? Immediately the people in the cashier , they try to speak English with these people. Okay? I'm always thinking man, why are you speaking English first? Speak, Finnish. Of course I'm not telling them. . But I'm thinking in my head, because it's like when you see somebody. Please, speak Finnish first.

Yeah.

And if they cannot understand, then you switch to English. But then again, also, like everybody have to be responsible. So if I want to learn

precisely that,

right? Yeah. When they speak English to me, you need to refuse to speak English. Exactly. You have to that. 'cause when you go to the shops, this is where people are obliged Yeah. To understand you. . They are obliged. Because if they don't have a choice. They don't have a choice. . So this is some of the best places to learn the language. Yeah. So when you get to the cashier, speak the best, whatever you can.

Yeah.

Speak it empty like all your vocabularies. . And then when there's nothing left, then go to English. Yeah. You get the point. But I realize when people come and then somebody speaks English to them at the cashier. . They're almost excited because now they don't even have to speak. . Finnish and that's like a personal choice. That's what I'm saying. If anybody really wants to learn, Finnish. they want to put in the work. And also like you did, you said to your friends like, now it's finnish or nothing. When you choose that path, you will learn, Finnish. Yeah.

So then when you go to even the cashier or the bar, bro, I used to go to the bar in the night just to talk to drunk people because I know when they're drunk, one, they will talk to me. And two, they will speak a lot. So I'll have the whole night just to like practice language. That's what I used to do.

Ooh, that's that is a, that's a, I've never heard that one. That's a creative one. . I heard one of my guest had a thing where on his paternity leave. . He would pay, he bought, he reserved a restaurant table. . Every day. Every weekday. For a year. . And he would go there and he's you come speak, Finnish with me for an hour. I'll pay for your lunch, . So it was a very creative,

like even where I live, there's like a coffee shop next to me. . So I've seen, like they have it on the shop that, like every Tuesday they give opportunity for people to come and practice how to speak, Finnish and stuff. I was like, man, this is interesting, right? But almost every time I walk past that place on Tuesdays,

it's empty.

It's empty. Yeah. I'm thinking like, like when I was trying to learn, Finnish, I would take all those type of opportunities, To speak it. You get it. So I believe everybody can, if everybody will, put in the work of obviously when you're older , it gets more difficult, but I think if you really put in the work and then you try as much as possible to use Finn, Finnish with every opportunity that you have, I think you will learn it. I

think so. So one thing that you mentioned, which was as something I was gonna ask about, is are there any like surprising or unconventional things you did that other people might not think of? At least the going to the bar to talk to hundred percent. Oh man,

I, I would do it. I did everything. Yeah. You know what I mean? But

What are the other like surprising or maybe unconventional things that you did? You tried, dictionary too. .

So I think also because in the beginning Yeah, because I didn't know much. So I would do things like watch children's program, yeah. That was even me sometimes I was by myself

Yeah.

Watching children's program and I would laugh at myself like, man, what? What are you doing? You know what I mean? But I realized like when you're watching children's program, they speak very easy Finnish. Yeah. So it makes it like very easy for you to understand and also learn like how the word sounds. And then also again like the, in the old people's homes, sometimes I would just start a conversation with them that I knew that I can have just to be able to have that confidence speaking the language. So if I'm like gonna feed them and stuff like that, I would start to feed them. But I will start to talk about. The type of food that we eat in Ghana, so that I can practice how to, like

food related work and stuff.

. Exactly. So I would just create like situations . Just to make one, make myself comfortable, because like now I know that I can talk about these things. Yeah. So if I start to talk to you about those things, you are like, oh, this guy is good. Like he's, but he's I'm in my comfort zone. . But I'm just using my comfort zone to build that confidence, that muscle that oh, I can speak the language and then the next day when I come back with another topic again. So those I wouldn't say they are like un unconventional thing, but the thing is you have to be willing to create those type of things. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And then also, like I went to churches, for example, to sit and listen and try to figure out like, did I understand anything?

Okay. That's an interesting one.

Yeah. Yeah. I would just go some I would really go somewhere where they speak like Finn. Yeah. And then I would listen, and then I would try to, sometimes I would even ask them like, is this what you said? Because I'm trying to know did I understand like what they were saying? Yeah. And most of the time even they'll say, okay, next time, come and sit in the front because you hear better. I'll go and sit in the front. . So it's cool. This type of thing, like for me is whatever it takes. . I wanted to learn the language. I was like, yeah.

But also the fact that you carry dictionary around with you, that's also another, that's it's like quintessential I want this and like it is like chasing your goal down with aggression,

like you said, like you said. I didn't have so much of a choice. Because when I left home, I knew I, I wasn't gonna go back. And then when I got here, I realized that, wait, I can study nursing in English, but if I want to work as a nurse in Finland,

it has to be in finnish

I need to learn the language. Yeah. Like when I came to Helsinki now, I realized okay, here there are people who they speak like the most basic Finnish. . And they can still get a job, as a nurse, where I lived, it was not possible. So eventually when I became a nurse, I lived in Salo. Yeah. But Salo is also like a very small city. . Yeah. So even English was not like that common. Helsinki is more common, but Salo was like, yeah, yeah. It was very like finnish , dominated.

What are like the, actually one sec, one thing you mentioned about you are watching

children's program,

children's programs because they speak. Clearly or something like, like that. Yeah.

Like easy language, easy to understand.

I just also mentioned that one thing that when I was doing it, there's this politiika radio or basically anything with finnish politicians. Yeah. So they speak they speak about more complicated subjects. But the language they use is like almost book language. So it's, it was one very helpful resource for me at least.

Yeah. Yeah. It helps because that's almost like similar for me going to the church trying to see if I understood.

So the priest is not gonna be speaking super slangy or anything like that,

they speak with charisma. 'cause they're trying to speak your spirit, yeah. So that was like pretty easy for me to understand also.

Yeah. What are like, passive things that you did that this question, I always mess it up a bit, but, okay. What are like the passive things you did that things that have already been set up or this happen to be in a certain way? . That help happened, that just helped you out.

No, I don't know if I understood quite right.

For example, in the, an example I have is like this guy who had the paternity leave, right? . So in Finland there's paternity leave. . It just happened to be that, okay, yeah, this things, this happened to be in this way. . And let me use it to my advantage. . Or thing other. Okay. I think, I guess in your case, the fact that you happened to be in a refugee camp . That had readily available, finnish courses was a . But also something like maybe you said your phone to the language. . Those kind of things. Is there any such thing that kind of come to mind?

Let me give you even better one.

Okay.

So now we're gonna talk about Swedish, right? . 'cause that's also another language that,

that is official here.

Yeah. And then I have to learn that also at some point.

Okay.

So what happened with Swedish was, so I lived in Salo, right? And then it was time when I became like a Finnish citizen. . I think 2015 something thereabout. . So I was supposed to go to the Army, ? Right now I lived in Salo.

Yeah.

So I wanted to go to like the closest military base to Salo. . Is Tammisaari okay. It is the closest, it's 45 minutes away. . But then because I spoke Finnish, I had to go to ULA, which is in Pori. Which is very far away. So I didn't want to go there. So I tried to figure out like, how can I go to Tammisaari

Okay.

So I called them and I asked them like, I live in Salo, Tammisaari is close to me. I want to go there. And they said, yeah, but you cannot go there because you are not like a Swedish speaker.

Yeah.

And then I asked so if I'm a Swedish speaker, can I go there? They said, yes, of course. I said, okay, I'll call you back.

No way. Okay. Yeah.

So I went to the magistrate, maistraatti. . Now, when you go to maistraatti to change your language, . They don't test you. They only give you a form and then you change. . You just change language. Okay. So I went to my strategy and I asked them like, they should switch my mother language to swedish And they said, okay, no problem. I filled the form was in finnish . I filled it and I gave it to them. So then they, like in the system it said, my mother language is Swedish. So then I called them back and I said, i'm a Swedish speaker, I wanna come to , Tammisaari . And they said, okay, no problem. So then boom. I go to Tammisaari . I knew one thing, I had never been to the Army before, but I know, like in Army, everything that they teach you is the same. So what I did was, like, I, when I got there, the things that you have to learn I got them in Swedish. And then I will I did not understand, but I will recite them to myself in the best of my knowledge. And then when I go there to the trainings, I will listen what they say and then I will, because it is a book, you need to, it's like you need to let, for example, like the laws of the guns and stuff like that. . It's a system, yeah. They have the system and so it's the same thing that they would say all the time. . So I managed to do the army in Swedish. So the thing is like when you go to places where the systems are there . Just put yourself in the system. . You will figure it out. .

So basically, so you know, some good amount of swish at least.

Oh, now yes. But then I didn't, but obviously after that time it's crazy because after that time I heard Swedish so much. Yeah. Because, like literally that's what they spoke in the base. That is true. Yeah. So I think like sometimes, it's like just get out of your comfort zone. . Everything else you'll figure it out. Yeah. Oh man.

So I think when it comes to learning language, I think the, once you see the importance of what you get, when you know the language, . It is the same thing. Also, like we are talking about I did an interview about how. To find a job in Finland.

Yeah,

bro, I've never struggled with finding a job because from the refugee camp.

Yeah.

The very first job that I looked for was a cleaning job. . I spoke Finnish, it was not difficult to get, and then it was like, it's always built from there, . So if you ask me like, is it difficult to get a job? I don't know.

Your experience is different.

. It's different because I've always managed to get a job. Yeah. And the thing also is like even the, there was one guy who was with me in the refugee camp. And then in the refugee camp, they will ask you because they want, they want you to integrate into the Finnish culture in society. So when you're in the camp, they teach you things from like, how to go to the shop. They will take you to the shop. Yeah. And then they'll show you how to like, make a purchase and then they will show you how to cook and then they will show you how to clean the kitchen and stuff like that. So they will run like roasts, okay, if you want to learn how to clean

Yeah.

Then you can clean the kitchen for a month.

Yeah.

And then somebody will evaluate your cleaning, and then they will give you a paper that says you can clean. I'm like, oh, this is opportunity for me to get my first job experience. So I said, okay, I can clean the kitchen. I cleaned the kitchen. They gave me a paper that, okay, Jo da that has been cleaning the kitchen in this come from this time to this time. When I went to look for my first cleaning job, I didn't even have resident permit, bro. I didn't even have, just when you live in the refugee camp, you have automatic work permit. So I used that, and then I add the certificate from the refugee camp that I had to cleaned the kitchen for a month, and then I can clean. Good. That's how I got my first cleaning job, so it's gone from that till, of course, when you start working as a nurse, after six months you can work in the old people's home. Then it's always been like that, so when you ask me like, is it hard to get a job in Finland? I don't know. I always got a job from, and the language is like very important. So if you figure out like what you get when you know the language, the learning of it becomes easy.

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. . Yeah. I wanna do this part where, 'cause I have written down into there's six parts to learning a language. . So I'll just say them and then you just say the things that you did to build that part. . So let's start with number one is vocabulary.

The dictionary obviously.

And at some point did you read books that you were getting new words from there or,

yeah, like I would also like when I thought I was getting better, so then I would try to read the newspaper and see did I understand. So like the newspaper also was one of those things. And then sometimes I would listen to a radio conversation and stuff like that and try to. How much I understood, yeah. So like when it comes to learning the words and the vocabulary, it was obviously, like for me in the beginning it was the dictionary. That's where I learned the words. And then I would use the software, the Pimsler software at the time to learn how to pronounce the words. Like how does it sound? If I say this, so I think I would say the dictionary.

Dictionary. Okay. Okay. But then basically the source of the words that you were looking up in the dictionary was also like just day-today, life,

day-to-day life. Yeah. Yeah. So like I said, like sometime maybe my friend said something that I didn't understand.

Yeah.

I would just find out like, what did this mean? Yeah. Or sometimes if I'm going to the shop Yeah. To buy something that, I don't know what it's called, because you know that time really early, you don't even know what like eggs is called. . So I will find what is the eggs? Then I will find out like, how do you say I want to buy eggs? 'Cause you realize also in like in finnish language. Almost everything you say changes all the time, depending on what is the context of the situation. . You know what I mean?

. Okay. And then with speaking, how did you practice that?

Yeah, so with speaking again, I was doing like pretty similar things. So if, like I said, I would go to the bar and talk to people just to make sure, like everything that I know I will use it. When I was working in the Old People's Home, I started conversations just to be able to talk about something, that. And then also, like if I had, obviously my friends didn't speak English, so the, our daily, the communication was pretty much in English all the time.

But he didn't speak English, so he wasn't Finnish, so Yeah. He wasn't

Finnish all the time. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. For me, I had that possibility to like practice. Like already from the beginning? Yeah, from the beginning. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then listening I'm guessing that goes hand in hand with the Oh

Yeah.

How did you work on the grammar?

Yeah, so how I worked on the grammar was also, again, it comes to speaking, right? 'cause when you speak, like in the old people's room, like I said, when you say something and you say wrong, some of them they can be funny. . And they'll say, man, this guy is so stupid. He doesn't even know this is how you say the word. But then what I pick up is like, how do you say the word? You get it Like the rest of the thing, it doesn't really bother me.

A hundred percent. Speaking of, I posted this on Reddit and then some guy was saying yeah, this is such low quality production. Yeah. You don't even speak fluent English. And then I was like, oh, huh. But you said low quality production. How can I improve production?

Exactly.

It was like that's, you can insult me all you want, but like you are also giving me things that are making me better.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. . And then the thing is like I realize like with the same guy, . Next time when you have high production, he wouldn't even bother about your English anymore. You get it. Yeah. So for me, like I was very like peculiar with those type of things. Like when somebody said something, whatever they said didn't really bother me, but the most important thing out of what they said is what I would pick. And what was important at that time was like the correction of the word, because I wouldn't know how to use the word. If somebody doesn't correct me. And then I realize some people also got offended a lot when somebody corrected them, . Because they thought somebody correcting you means you are stupid. But , if you don't know the language, then you know it's the same thing.

They're doing you a favor basically. . What about oh yeah so yeah. So with grammar, so basically the people correcting you or something. . And of course, I'm guessing from courses as well for sure. You did some courses for sure. .

Because I did also after the, so what happened to me really was like, because even when I was in the refugee camp Yeah. I was trying to get into the university. Yeah. So I did the first two courses in the refugee camp. But after that, I got so good with the Finnish that I couldn't go continue with their classes. I had to go. So what happened was like, then I was trying to get into the university. But I missed the first application because I didn't know that I needed like I-E-L-T-S because I thought I was from Ghana, which is like English speaking country. So . So my first application that I did to the university, I, I couldn't even get anywhere because I didn't have the I-E-L-T-S . Attached to it. So now I had one more year to wait for the following year to do the application again. So then I went to learn, like Finnish in really professional settings. Yeah. So then I went to the, so initially I was supposed to go to to learn Finnish in the Finnish Language School.

Yeah.

But because I thought I, I know, and I understood Finnish, I had filled the form, I had literally filled the wrong form, because I'm supposed to go learn, Finnish in the Finnish Language School. But I had filled a form to learn a course, which was for people who already spoke Finnish. . And the mistake was that because those, my friends that I told you about, that they didn't speak English. Yeah. They were going to that course. So I had, I thought they were

they had filled the wrong form. So you also,

or no, for them, they had filled the correct form. . But for me, I had filled the wrong form. . Because of their level of Finnish. And mine was not the same at the time. So then it was like, oh,

so they were a bit ahead at that time,

Of course. Of course. Yeah. Okay. Because they spoke Finnish like pretty fluently at the time. . Yeah. So for them it was like the right course, but for me it was, but then also when we went to the, they didn't figure out that I had filled the wrong form until it was time to do the interview. Because it was like you, you apply, . They invite you to the entrance examination. . And then you go to do the entrance examination. And then the entrance examination was like, it was first written and then speaking.

Yeah.

Like interview, . So my thing was I had filled the wrong form. They didn't know, so they invited me and then I went to the entrance examination. I had done the writing part first, and then I had gone to the interview. So when I went to the interview, that was where they, so they asked how long have you lived in Finland? . And then when I told them, I was like, okay, but with this course at least you need to be in Finland for two years. So that means like literally I had, filled the wrong form.

Yeah.

But then they had also in, interviewed me already, like long enough to understand, like I already knew Finnish like enough. So then they said, okay, what we are going to do is you don't need to wait for the next application to apply to the finnish language course. . We will send you the directly because we already know like that you speak to, you can speak this much. . And then I said, okay, that's fine. So now I'm home. I'm waiting for admission letter to the Finnish course. Now I think, like what they explained to me later on was like, they had sought they had seen my, the writing because you first, yeah. So then what happened was, so then they were supposed to send me admission letter to blah, blah, blah, but now they have seen the writing part. And they were, then they told okay, I can speak good, I can write good. Maybe they should give me a chance. In that

original course.

Yeah, that course. Yeah. But not the, like that wrong,

the original wrong course.

Yeah. So then they can test me, but if I cannot succeed . Then they will always like, just drop me, . And then that was okay. So they invited me to the school and then we had a discussion and then they said if that was okay. And I said, yeah, these already my friends are gonna be in this course, so you know, why not? And then I was in that course and then I managed very well. I graduated and everything. Wow. So then I had learned Finnish like. On the next level, right? Yeah. Wow.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So you know when you move. Yeah. God also went behind the scenes to support you. That's how I see it. Because

you're making the effort and then just like getting Exactly. Because

I had that one year to wait. To apply to the nursing school, yeah. So even when the next year came I had even gone further with the finnish course. Now I was actually even in Ammattioppisto . Learning, because in that time in Turku was like, welding was the thing, 'cause they were building the boats, the galaxy boat and stuff. . So if I didn't get into the nursing school, I would continue there. Yeah. But then I was like three months in the, in that in the ammattioppisto . . And then I got the letter that I had been admitted into the university. And I just left. . Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so that was on the grammar and then with reading. And number five is reading and number six is writing. . But , those, how do you, how did you like practice those?

Yeah. I think you also came from pretty much the same. Practice because Okay, before I go, now in the school is different because now in the school you really have to read and write and somebody's testing you, right? But prior to that, I was just doing like similar things. If I see the word and I didn't understand and even I didn't have my dictionary, then I will write it down and later on I will refer to the dictionary. Or if I'm gonna like to the shop, I will first write down what, how, what I want to say, how to say it and Finnish. And then I will figure it out. So even in the Pimsler, you have to type it first before it will say it in words for you to understand , yeah. So I think like the writing and stuff obviously today we all use like Google translator, . But in that time you had to really write it,

like actively engage with it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And okay. But you did okay, you said you read newspapers and stuff like that? Yeah. But in the early stages, what kind of stuff did you like read?

So in the early stages I would read like children's book. . Because that's what I would understand, yeah.

And then would there, did you ever apart from that, did you practice writing? What kind of did you like? Yeah. I don't know. Do, did you like write essays and stuff like that? I wrote,

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I would just try to see like, how much can I go with what I know? . In writing. . . So I would write okay my name is blah, blah, blah. I'm from Ghana. I love to do this. Yeah. That type of thing. I wrote them like, I don't know how many times. Okay. Hundreds of times. . Yeah. Yeah. So I would always write like everything that I knew that I could write.

Yeah.

I would write them, say them, that's like literally what I did.

But what is the circumstance for, is it like you're just there? Then, I don't know, in the evening you just take out pen and paper and then you see yourself.

Like the way that I studied Finnish, if I would've studied like science and maths in high school, I probably would be a doctor. Okay. Literally, that's how I used to learn, Finnish.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

So with a lot of zeal, enthusiasm. Yeah. Passion, okay. Yeah.

Okay. Fair.

That's what I did. Yeah. We have 12 minutes.

Yeah. Okay. Tell me the times about the times which, when you found it like most difficult to continue chasing this like, goal of learning Finnish.

Oh I have never found it difficult.

Okay. Yeah. In your institution I was like completely different. Yeah.

I still find it like more exciting, yeah. I think two weeks ago or something like that, like I had just literally come out of, come from work. Yeah. And then like my girlfriend was speaking to me and then, so she was in the bedroom. I just go to the hall and then she was asking me something. And then I shouted the response and then she was like, man, you are really started to sound like a Finn. Like the terminology that I was using. She was like, and then I realized okay, like now, because I've been hanging with because of gym and stuff, I've been hanging a lot with this 20 year olds and stuff. . And they're using like really different terminologies , ah, so I kinda picked that up. . And then I'm showing that, and so she was like, wait for a minute. I had to come and look that is it . was it you? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So yeah, so it's you get excited when you realize, oh, I'm still getting better. You.

Yeah. How has your life become better now that you live in a country where you speak the language?

Oh, man. To be honest, like I always say that, for me, again, because since I came to Finland, I was trying to learn Finnish. I can tell you that. I'm talking on just my behalf. Yeah. Like I would say I've never had any bad experience. Not yet, because every time that I would speak Finnish and then, stuff like that, I think like somehow when you live in a country and then you speak the language and then like you do a lot of other things, people think like you're one of them. Then they treat you differently. So I would say, like for me, I've had a lot of opportunities, number one, because I can speak the language, and then number two, also, because I have a profession . That is easy to get a job. So like the language meant a hundred percent. Maybe that's why I still have not moved out of Feland. Because if I didn't speak Finnish, I probably would've moved to England or something. Since I graduated as a nurse. Because I would get a job literally in,

in the uk.

Yeah. Or even in the US or anywhere. .

And also, yeah. Yeah, because you said it's a huge factor in the ease of getting . Although right now the economy's a little messed up, so it's a little different case, but I think. Just generally such a game changer.

With nursing, just do double shift. You'll be fine.

It's, yeah. It's such a game changer. Yeah.

Do double shift. You'll be fine.

What words of encouragement can you give to anyone who is who's going through this is fed up or going through some Yeah.

I think I can understand when people, because it's very common that you hear Finnish language is very difficult. It is true, but that is, that doesn't mean that it's not possible to learn the language. I think like we all have the possibility. And the opportunity to learn the language. The only thing is like we have to put in a lot of effort because it doesn't come, especially when we are like older adult. . The language doesn't come to us easily. And naturally, but when you put a little bit of effort, then you can always learn. And the thing is like. Whatever you learn, whatever, if all you know is Mitä kuulu Yeah. You use that every day. And use it so much that you learn something else. And everything else that you learn, just keep using it. I think if you can do that, you will learn, Finnish for sure. For sure.

Okay. Sounds good. Okay, so I think two questions that, yeah. Okay. I've realized like integration is like a huge factor. Yeah. Because a lot of people, I'm sure you've also noticed that. A lot of people from different cultures when they come, they just spend time with people from their own culture and then they

don't do that. . Don't do that.

So can you speak on the subject in it? Yeah.

What can you speak? Yeah. I understand like it's always nice for us to hang, around people who are like, same like us speak same language, have the same habits and stuff like that. But when learning the language is very important to you . Then you can hang with those people just not all the time, hang where it's easy for you to learn the language. . For me, some of those places were like, the church were like listening to, going to like even programs trying to hear, Finnish and see if I understood, . And the thing is like it's language, it's communication. The more you speak it, the more easier it becomes, . So if you really want to learn the language, then even if you hang with people who are from the same places as you, hang with those ones who speak the Finnish . So that you can pick something from them. But if Finnish learning Finnish is not important, then is a whole different scenario, . 'cause even when I hang around my friends nowadays, like mostly even if I have somebody from Ghana who speaks Finnish, bro, I speak Finnish.

Okay. Yeah. I just came to my own earlier you were talking about people who went to like courses and stuff like that. Yeah. And they went into courses for a long time. Yeah. And then it didn't really get anywhere. Yeah. And there's a kind of a saying that I have for myself, which is like.

Nobody can teach you Finnish. . You have to learn, Finnish, you have to learn it. You have to learn it.

And I it's always what I tell the people who are going to courses, who are like, whenever I'm telling one of my friends like, Hey man, when are you gonna learn this? And they're like, oh, I'm starting a course in, in two weeks. Then it's cool, that's good. But they can't teach you the language. You have to learn the language.

I think they will teach you like how to use the language and how to connect

Yeah.

The different words. Yeah. But the thing is if you're not going out there and practicing yourself, so I think some people also like, because they are in the courses . And they are passing the exams. Yeah. They think they're making progress. . And that's a mistake because, it's

it's not like biology or Yeah.

No. So it's go out there and speak the language. Yeah. Test how much you understand and test how much, and just keep doing that. That will help you way more than . The courses

and I think the last one that I so yeah. From your experience when people don't succeed at learning Finnish Yeah. What are the reasons that you think? I think

they just don't want it as bad. If you want it as bad as you breathe, yeah. You will learn Finnish. That's a fact. That's the only explanation I have.

This is the kind of sad or annoying truth. Yeah. But a lot of people don't want hear it.

It is what it is.

A lot of people don't

and it's not about you want to hear it, you don't want to hear. It's just what it is. Yeah. Go out there and learn, Finnish, bro. When you learn, Finnish your life becomes easy. It's easy to get a job, it's easy to get a, friends. And it's easy for people to think you belong. Make life easy for yourself.

Quality of life is just through the roof after that. Let's go guys. Yeah. But yeah. Hey man, thank you so much. It was like it. Nice one. We hand the call yesterday recording today and get kicked out of the library. But yeah, thank you so much man. Anytime time. This is really great and thanks for the tips on that, like lighting and stuff like that. ​