007: I Didn't Wait To Be Included, I Learned The Language To Belong - Magdalene

Because in my time I was actually one of the first black woman to have a position as a nursing manager. . Like my children, I, I talk to them. I'm like, if you want speak the queen's language, you speak how the queen speaks it. Keep chasing your goal. Keep learning the language. If you see opportunities, grab them. . Don't be self-critique. Like me, at one point I was feeling like, oh, my skin color, maybe, you know, nobody ever told me like, because of your skin color. It was just me. . I have to study this language because he already said that I, this is my home. And definitely we will have children there. We'll settle there, uh, career wise and everything, then I have to start learning the language.

So today we have a great guest with us and I'll let her introduce herself with a few rapid fire questions. So, um, name,

Magdalene, Awahnde,

and age

39 plus.

39 plus and, and, Ever since I turned 25, I'm like, oh, 25 25.1 25.2, 25.3 I completely understand. .

And profession.

I'm a nursing manager.

Nursing manager. And how many years now? We're in 2025. So, so far How many years have you lived here

21. Yeah, 21 years.

Okay. Great. Okay, so, I'll just briefly tell how I found this guest, magdalene Uh, so we know from, we know each other from church, and I think when I was talking to Anita During the episode, she mentioned either that or then I called my mom. Even though she doesn't speak for the, she definitely must know somebody who,

yeah.

Yeah. And then she mentioned the name, and I think she called you. Or something. Yeah. She called you other, she's like, yeah, you were expecting my call. So I called and then, Here we are. How does Finland show up in your life story? Like, what brought you here and how long, I mean, you've already said that you've been here years, but How does Finland show up in your life story?

Yeah. I came here, um, as a student, but obviously my husband was here, so that was the reason why I came to Finland. But I came as a student, so then I came here and then started studying and then, um, um, yeah, having children work study, making more babies and then just yeah, in that, that, that format or in that way.

Okay. Do you have any nicknames? Do you, what do your friends call you?

. My friends at work, they call me Magda, but my, my friends like African community or Cameroonians, they call me Maddo.

Maddo?

Yeah.

Magda or Maddo. Okay.

Yeah. So depending on the community.

So If someone calls you Maddo at work, no one would know who they

No, they won't know.

Yeah. Um, and so, yeah, so I want this to be like very conversational. Tell us many stories as you want to no limit on it. And what would, what prompted you to learn the finnish line? was there a turning point or a specific need that pushed you to

Yeah, of course there was, there was a specific, need because when I was in Cameroon, my husband was here and we were talking about, The job market. And about how, how we make our life here in Finland. While I was, I was in Cameroon, I was studying, um, management, In the university in Cameroon. And then he was like, okay, we do management there. And in Finland, I don't know, I've been here for a long time. My husband was here before me. By then, he was already like seven years, uh, eight years already in Finland. So he was telling me job market for that. in this part of the world it's very slim, so we have to think about something else. And then he actually suggested what about healthcare? And I was like, oh, actually he said

medical field because I did study social sciences back home. So I was like, yeah, I did study biology and, and all this. Maybe I can, I can try that. So back home I started a diploma program in, uh, nursing. I was like, okay, let me start from That base level. And I was studying back home. So I was just like kind of preparing myself how I'm gonna get like, you know, study place. Maybe if I have more understanding in the field and I can have like an a mission. And also already there we were planning our family, we were planning our life, of course, as couples. So, and also like location, where are we going to settle? You know, when people get married, we're talking about all these things.

So I was like, you know, you are my man. I'm following you wherever you are. And he's like, this is my home. I, I think Finland is my home. Wow. When, where? When I was already in Cameroon. he was telling me like, this is where I'm gonna settle. . So I just laid up my mind there. So he said he was giving advice in like, if we are gonna settle here, yeah, of course you, I don't know what, what you want. But when immediately he said that this is my home, I said, okay. Then that was just the motivation for me I have to study this language because he already said that this is my home. And definitely we will have children there. We'll settle there, career wise and everything, then I have to start learning the language. So I started learning, you know, um, back, back then there wasn't even like YouTube. there wasn't that knowledge of like, you can go to YouTube and study. Yeah. He would be telling me, oh, do you know how they call? For example, milk in Finnish? Like, you know, there'll be Maito, you know, when couple had discussing there would be just chat. It would be, he'll be laughing. Like, I'll be like, my, oh my goodness. That's so weird. This language is so weird. maito, and then there's also like a very, distinct one that stays in my memory to today is Piima

Piima

Piima So, I don't know if it's good to say this, but in Camero Cameroonians, understand what I'm, I'm talking, but piima, you know, this, the fermented

yogurt.

The fermented yogurt. So he was telling me like, do you know how we call that here in Finland, in Finnish? He was like, Piima And then I was laughing. I was like, oh my goodness. It is so contrast, like, you know, with how we call it, like what it means in cameroon and you know, this kind of small, small things, we just laugh about it, But those things were, you know, it was ticking in our brain like, okay, this is how this see, and then it was always minä rakastan sinua

okay, okay.

I love you. I'm like, okay. So whenever he calls, he'll be like, minä rakastan sinua and then me too I'll be like minä rakastan sinua , it was so weird, but, you know, love can make someone really, you know? . Go. So kind of extreme mind. . So I was already so in love with the language, so motivated. . And he was motivated because he would bring it, you know, in our churchs like, you know, just like fun. And so I would just pick, pick it up from there. And then, yeah. I had an admission in Finland and then I moved to Finland. admission, like for school

or

to study? Yeah, from Cameroon. . So I had an admission to study in Finland and I was like, yes. So I came, came to Finland. When I moved here, of course back home we did like a traditional marriage, but when I moved to Finland, this is where we did. Our pot of, marriage Okay. Here in Finland. so I came here and then I think I, I, I came here was like, just how many months I got pregnant. before getting pregnant, immediately I came, he was like, it would be nice to go to some language course. that period, he, he enrolled, I was enrolled in language course before waiting for my study place. . So, started, doing this language course, this very basic, level. And I think it was in one, um, non-governmental organization that I even had this language course that I was studying. . So it was mostly people from different backgrounds and we were. studying it. I realized I was very interested. I was really motivated because I took every opportunity when I want to go to the grocery shopping, I would go to the, the cashier. And I would be like moi , and there'll be, you know, I was young, you know, when you are young also, I guess you are just so free Because I came here, I was 19 and I would be like, moi and they would be like, moi , I'll just cram maybe one or two. I'll learn something that I've learned the previous day, like how much does this cost? Yeah. So I'll go to the shop and I'll be like, sometimes my grammar will be so off. one thing I really love about Finnsthey don't laugh at your, your poor grammar 100 Yeah. They don't laugh because my, they, they'll be like, they understand the, the message, Theyunderstand what you're trying to say and they'll be like, you just pick it up from like, okay,

what you , trying to say

what you're trying to say. So I guess that also did help. and I really actually didn't care, but I knew that my grammar was really off. ' Cause sometimes I would mix, like when we have, like, you know, uh, when I started my nursing program and I, I was doing my, practice placement sometimes during our practice placement. I had the first practice placement, um, in the hospital. And sometimes the client, the, the patient would be like, um, I should, uh, uh, I would be like, I remember there was this, particular, um, incident that a patient. wife, she asked me if I could bring, um, um, this kukkamaljakko For her. I think she, she brought, flowers to her husband she asked if I could bring, she said voitko antaa uh tuoda , kukkamaljakko . And then I was like, oh, kukkamaljakko . And I, I felt, I said, yeah, I think I've heard this word. And then I went to my ohjaaja. To my supervisor. . I said the client, , the client, the patient wife said she wants kakku . I was so confident and she was like, why does she, why? Like she doesn't, what does the, how would she ask for kakku? Yeah. And I was like, yeah. She said, kakku. And then I came there.

And just for context, for people who don't, Finnish kukkamaljakko is like a flower vase. . And then kakku is cake.

Yeah. So

she completely mix up.

I completely mixed them up and I was so confident. I was like, and then my supervisor would like the, but that would be really weird that she's asking for cake. Like, why? ' cause this patient can't even, like, you know, has swollen swallowing problems why would she be asking for cake? Yeah. And then she came, and then she was like, oh, did you ask for something? And then this lady repeated kukkamaljakko and was like, okay, it's not a cake. She's asking for a flower vase . that day I learned the difference between a flower vase and a cake. and I was like, oh my goodness.

Yeah. That's funny.

So

funny.

Yeah. So, this kind of, you know, day to day, day to day, uh, things and then those kind of mistakes you make. Then the words, they just stick.

Fair points. Fair point.

Yeah.

so during the phase when you guys were long distance Yeah. So he was, mentioning finnish words to you and stuff like that.

Yeah. He was like,

Hey, the game, the game is the game. You know? The game is the game. Yeah. that's funny. So, and yours, it's kind of unique in the people I've talked to because you just have the natural excitement towards the language.

Yeah. So

most people are like, okay, I'm here. this is the mission. it's a task that I have to do to take 10,000 steps. I'll do the 10,000 steps. But for you, you were actually like, no, like, I forget. Wanna do this? . You're excited about, . This is kind of rare from what I've, from the things that I've experienced so far. . Yeah. But that, that's really interesting. so in,your story so far, I'm, I'm just trying to get the like, kind of timeline kind of correctly. Initially you came for, with the education, even though you had a partner, you had, you were dating somebody who was here. And then you studied and started working

At point.

So, in which, which year, what's the year, what was the studies? And the year also before that, was that finnish course before you went the admission? So from year, what's to year? What was the finnish course?

that was 2000. I moved to Finland in 2004. ? Yeah. And from 2004, I studied the finnish course. I, it was about three, four months. . And. Yeah. And I was pregnant and I started having pregnancy too. I couldn't continue going to school. in these like day to day things, you know, I was just trying to speak and I had also like some finnish friends That I, I, I meet in our neighborhood. We even actually then in a student apartment. . So I had some, some finnish friends around and sometimes we'll meet, we'll chat, you know, we'll be, I'll tell her like, I want to learn the language, you know, we'll be talking about different things about where I'm coming from, where she's coming from, cultural differences. And I'll be asking like, what does this mean? in finnish? How do you say this in finnish? How do you do this and how do you do that? So yeah. But also when I started studying after I, I had my baby, then I started my group, I started this certain nursing program. In Laurea University of applied sciences. That was, 2000 and five.

Okay, so, so

2006? Yeah. 2006 I started a nursing program. In Laurea So, um, in our class it was an international program. It was in English. . So, um, I had also, I think I had really motivated group of, immigrants in my class because we're also young. . I guess they, I don't know if the age has something to do, . this group of, it was, it was really special because when I look now, I hear people's stories. I don't really see these kind of like, you know, things. Our class when we're studying, we had this motivation that we want to climb our career ladder. . We knew that, okay, yes, we have to go through the basics, but we had this vision. . You know, I had my classmates that they were like, they want to actually be doctors. . And so we were already told that if you wanna be In Finland, you have to learn the language. So we had a vision that we wanna, we wanna go there. And we knew what it takes, at least from those. Who were around us, who were advising us, our teachers, our mentors, my husband Was saying you have to learn the language and it's not just, you know, this basic level. As you go higher, you need more. You have to go deeper. And so I remember in the cafeteria, we, the cafeteria, we just meet the, this group of cameroonians be like moi, mitä kuuluu, and it was just so natural. . Between us, we'll be switching between pidgin English finnish and uh, and uh, and English. And you know, our grammar was, yeah, it was off, but we were just speaking and,

interesting. Interesting.

Yeah. '

cause I think another, this is also, this again differs from the kind of stories I've heard. . Which is like, usually I've heard it just being, it's an individual journey kind of thing, but it seems like you had people who were also on the same. Come up kind of with . With trying to improve their level of finnish. Not just people you meet in a course and that you never meet them again, but like people who are your friends and they're all

Yeah. And immediately we just connected because your circle also matters

a hundred percent.

we just realized that we are kind of like, we have the same, you know, goals and . We just, when was just naturally connecting . With that. And we were telling ourselves that they too had, they had the same vision. Like, okay, they wanna study here, they wanna go higher, and they wanna stay in Finland, so we gonna let the language, so They, and to be honest, all of these things that I'm putting you today, they are all doing well in Finland. . They are doing very well in their various professions.

Great.

And I, in the, in the language. So it's something that I'm really grateful also that they too have, you know, at least I think some level of where they, they wanna be Yeah.

In the, in Finlands, like socioeconomic kind of thing, unless it's very, very, you get lucky in your field and you don't have to run, finnish. It's almost like you to get up. . You need the language. cause for me, I'm a software developer, but the first company I was working at, I just looked around like, okay, in year one I was just kind of looking around like, okay, who are the people who are above me? What is their, what is common among them?

Yeah.

They all speak, finnish. And then also I have come to understand that career wise, a lot of things is not about just what you know how to do, but also who, you know.

Yeah.

And I'm like, well I want to get to know these people, but I don't speak Finnish and they're not comfortable speaking English with me, so how do I change that?

Yeah.

They're not gonna learn English for me. . So, and I live here, so why? Yeah. . So that's, this is a very good, uh, point. But getting to med school for example. is like Crazy hearted thing. Were any of them able to actually do that?

actually no. None of them were able to get there, but I I, they have their own companies nowadays.

Okay. . That's also, yeah, like tasking thing and a very rewarding Rewarding thing. Finland has this, don't quote me on this, but, uh, what I read was, has this artificial cap on how many people are allowed to become doctors through finnish education system So if you want to bypass that, you have to go do it abroad. and I think they do that so that they can, don't quote me on this so that they can keep their salaries because if there's too many doctors then.

Okay.

. Yeah, that's, that's what I, I heard.

Interesting.

Yeah. But, um, yeah, but if you wanna bypass, you just do it abroad and you Yeah. In new country and then you come back to, yeah. But, okay. So, um, O, O four, three or four months of, of language course then. Laurea 2006 started studying

Yeah. To 2000 2009. 2006 to 2009 I studied at my bachelor's . Degree. And, we had, of course, during the nursing program, they have this nurse, uh, finnish language course. Yeah. In the program that you are, you are taught mandatory courses that we, we took there, . To have this basic intermediate and then advanced level that we were studying, hand in hand while studying the, the, the, the, the program. . So I did learn also through that. .

by the time you graduated, how loyal would you say you spoke Finnish?

It was still not good.

Okay.

Yeah. It wasn't still that, um, strong, but I was managing that. I'm able to maybe like work, um, not so confidently in my field. I could work like a, um, yeah, I could manage, let me use that way. I could manage when I graduated. My, um, practical, uh, uh, placements, they had, A major role to do in my learning or finnish language, especially in my field of studies, . The me, the vocabulary, the medical vocabularies that you need in the field. Those, I think I learned them more during my, practice placements years. So we had these practice placements. It's not like today that, it's very easy even for international students to get, practice placements. Then it was really, really difficult to get a practice placement as an international student. ' cause it wasn't a thing that, it was like new to them that, international students, uh, are coming to do practice in Finland . So, so there wasn't like supervisors that are ready to take that task because you are like supervising a student who has zero . Um, language.

Language skills.

Language skills, . So it was like a big, big, big thing for them. We used to, apply, you apply so many places and there would be always like a turndown. . We would do it through jobiili, but it wasn't so easy also to get it through jobiili because, the language thing, you know, international students. Yeah. But I had this opportunity through my first practice placement in an, elderly home. So we have it all. Usually like the first practice placement for all nursing students, you have to go like you study, . The basics of nursing. . Yeah. Yeah. So that was the first practice placement I had there. And when I was there, I already had, I had a target, I had a vision before I was going for that participation with an intention that I must learn a summer job. It was so tight then financially also. So I was like, okay, I don't wanna do, I don't wanna do the other unskilled jobs, like maybe cleaning even if I get a job as a cleaner. In this field of studies that I'm studying. That will help me also to learn the language. . So I had a target that I want a job there, but I didn't put myself like, I must work as a student, a nursing, um, registered nurse student. ' when I went there, my finnish was zero. I remember the clients would talk to me and I would just be like, you know, non verbal communication, all my, all my, all my bragging, with my friends in school, everything just disappeared. The client will be talking to me and I'll be like, I'll just be smiling and they'll be asking me questions and I'll just be smiling like, yeah, you know, I'll just be like, joo joo then. My supervisor Oh my goodness.

Hey. But you were at least smiling. I remember. I remember when I first got my first, 2017, I got this job at the cashier. Yeah. And I remember I had to just really write down what are the most common things I would end up having to say. Yeah. And memorizing them to say

it. Oh my goodness.

and if somebody said something to me that was not according to my script

out of it it was

like, it's above me now.

Yeah.

And, and you could see me looking physically stressed. Yeah. It was, it was bad. finnish Language is not easy, to be honest.

It's, it, it is not a, it's not an easy language. But, I resonate a lot with that because During those days, but I love singing. I love, I sing a lot. I remember when I would walk for practice placement, I would just be singing. for the clients , I'll be doing everything my supervisor tells me to do. Go out with the medication room, check out everything. And then during my, my, my like time now to interact with the clients because I can't speak, I'll just, you know, maybe I'll meet a client who is just sitting there and maybe a bit depressed And then I just start singing, I think that was what caught the heart of the lady. I remember at the end of that part placement, my supervisor wrote everything that good, good, good, but kieli language that I have to develop on my language skills. And I was like, oh my goodness, my mission has been aborted. I was thinking that I'm gonna get a job here. . Now this is like, okay, no go area. I'm not gonna do, I'm not gonna get this job. My language is not enough. But that was the first year in my practice, my first year when I was studying the nursing program. Then , I, I met , the, the manager I told her I would like to have a summer job here, she was like, what do you want? I said, anything. And she said, mm, but your language is not enough. I said, yeah, it's not enough, but I have the motivation to learn. she said, yeah, I have seen that and I've had feedbacks from the staff that you are very friendly. You are smiling all the time. You interact, you are empathetic with the clients and that your nonverbal communications are obvious, that they're really like you can be with the clients. So I got my first job as a uh, uh, they call it hoitoapulainen. Okay. As like

a care assistant?

Care assistant Oh my. I was all by the womb. I was so happy. I was so happy. And I remember that time we came back because usually when students, come back from practice placement, everybody will be sharing their experience. Yeah. So I remember my classmates, especially finnish ones, 'cause we have finns in our class, they would be like, oh, I got a job as a registered nurse student. And then I was like, and then , my teacher was asking like, did any of you, uh, were able to, to, to get, And I was like, yeah, I got it as a nursing, uh, as a care assistant. And I remember my, uh, immigrant friends, they were just laughing. They were like, Magda seriously. And I was so happy. And they were like, Magda, but you know, this is a big step for you. . And I'm telling you, I started work. I worked that summer there, but that summer it helped me a lot because I had a pen and a paper, although I was a care assistant, I was basically like in the kitchen, washing dishes and, um, um, reading maybe newspaper for the newsletter for the clients. I would be writing like those things, the, the, the languages that I think, you know, things that I don't understand or things that I've learned new. when the, the clients would be saying this, I write down, that helped me during my second practice placement. It helped me a lot. Those kind of small steps and, and just being, actively involved. this is actually very unique

from Yeah. From the other things that I've kind of, I've kind of heard, so, this is all during the, the like between O six and O nine, I suppose.

Yeah.

The, so this is what we year, . , year two to year five. to year five. Okay. At what point do you feel like you reached, like, like the higher B level or C level?

that was actually, um, about. About, um, I would say like about two or three years after graduation

already?

Yeah.

Wow.

About two or three years. Okay. three years after graduation because I was actively working in the nursing field. And I was challenging myself because I worked in the hospitals, I worked, I was taking more challenging roles. I landed my first job as a registered nurse in, a stroke ward in Hospital. clients, they come for, maybe they have some, neurological, stroke. They have a stroke. And then they, they are coming from the operating room, and then they come to our ward, for rehabilitation. And then after we kind of discharge them. so There was this writing part. So it was not only about the speaking but also there was the writing. You have to write, a quarterly report? Or any report of the client's health state and then you report it to wherever he or she's going. If he is going home, you give with him or have report. Or if it's going to a next, place for care, then you have to write this report. So it's like a formal, formal writing. I think It helped me a lot because I improved. I had to put like put in more work, more self-study. . Putting the effort and learning, going online. That's why I was really. Into books and trying to really understand the grammar.

I think when I did my thing in 2022 where I was like, this year this is my main thing, that's pretty much all I'm do. Writing was a thing that I did the least of, and I kind of regret that because when I started doing it, I was like, wow, I really should have started this a bit earlier. It was, I, I, I felt quite lazy with that. 'cause I had, it was quite a, a bit of overload generally. Just like, okay, I'm speaking finnish with everyone. This, this is a lot

Yeah.

Of mental effort and stuff like that. So there were every time it was like moments of weakness But it, it really helped you develop the writing. ' cause

Yeah.

If you're writing, you can just say it.

Yes. But then when you're writing, you are forced to be more deliberate with what you are putting in my field, you don't have, we don't have a choice, especially in those uh more challenging, Areas, ? You don't have a choice even in, in, in other, other sectors. when client is being discharged, you have to write. It's formal writing, Yeah.

so through like your learning journey So let's say in your case it was from year one to year eight, where if, where was like when you reached that, where it's like, okay, going, going forward, this is gonna improve itself because you've already reached like high B or C level. And, um, but if you, okay, walk me through, the learning journey, what worked and what didn't?

Um, what worked was that? Self-motivation. That was it. I was really motivated. It helped me a lot. And, also, I have a lot of Finnish friends, so we had also this like free, free time, you know, after work. Yeah. We hang out and we speak in finnish. Yeah. The communicating finnish, what didn't work? I would say, like in terms of me learning the language or

In terms of you. ' there's like so many methods of going about it, ? And then some things work for you, some don't work for you. one person I recently talked to was like, going to class did not really help her because, well two people, said that once. They would end up coming late to the class because of their work.

So

they would always miss the first half hour And they would never get the opportunity to go through the homework So going to classes in that regard didn't help her. Then another person was like, she wanted to really fast track it. So the people she was with in the class, even though that was her level, they were not moving fast enough.

So for example, any method that you know, that people have tried or that you, tried that didn't really work for you?

Mm,

yeah.

I think my journey, I would say every, everything that I went through, how I, I went through my journey in learning finnish language and I'm still learning. I've not arrived. . So, I don't know. You said B or C, or, I don't know. I don't, I don't remember those, the category details, but. I've not arrived. 'cause I'm still learning even. Yeah. Even now in, in my, the peak, my career ladder. I would say every, everything that I went, how my journey through every step. .

It helped me because, I had a vision. I was a hundred percent, motivated for the language. There was one point in our life, especially with my husband, that, my husband wasn't getting the job he wanted here.

In his field of studies. he was like, you know, I don't want to do this meager jobs. I want to work where I actually can give back more. Where I studied in my field of studies. So he wasn't getting it. I think he applied for over 4,000 applications and he was always getting valittetavast? And he was like, no, I cannot be doing this cleaning job anymore. He had a cleaning company, but he felt like he could give more. . You know, so we were like, he said, okay, he want to try somewhere else. So we moved to us. . We moved to Texas in Houston. thank God we were there for just about four months. And then my husband now had had a call Yeah. From one of the companies that he applied. Yeah. And he had an interview online and he landed the job. this is just God's grace because he landed that job usually. When you, they give you a job. They'll give you maybe a permanent, uh, um, um, is it like a, määräaikainen like temporal? , But he had a permanent position straight,

straight away.

He had it straight away. . And he was like, you know, he was like, is this for real? Like he, he had to like, I want to really like sign this paper physically. I want to really see this paper. to believe it. during that period, I think that was, that was away from, I should I say that? That didn't help me because we were away and I was also thinking about if I, if we have to study there. with the children and everything going through the NCLEX exams in the US I was also comfortable.

is that the thing for your nursing?

Yes. To the, to the American system. So I was like, my husband, he's the head of the family. We have a traditional home. He's the head of the family in that sense, like, you know, being the spiritual head. I also want him to be comfortable in his job. I was, I was comfortable in my field. I had a vision, but I realized, what we planned in the beginning that this is gonna be our home. It wasn't really that time he thought it would be, but now he was like, maybe it's not really working for me because I think we can be much more better we were there. yeah, that didn't work for me and then I came back. . So we came back. Also, other factors, our own personal values. Especially concerning the American, way of life and what we want as a family. I think we will get better living in Finland. .

done. There is is of course the, the income there is better, but yeah. So yeah, so we moved back here that period that I was away, I realized that my finnish '. Also went down. It went down. . So, um, yeah. But, I came back and my job was still there. . Thank Lord I didn't quit. I just told them I need työ loma. . I just need työloma. So I came back and I was able to start again. But I realized that yeah, when you don't use the language, especially language that is not your mother tongue,

it's, yeah.

You start forgetting and you realize, like, you know, when, when I, I'll be talking, I would be like, what was this, what was this? like basic things. I'll be like, okay, okay, okay.

And I noticed, I noticed that with my little sister 'cause she was born here and when she was like three. Four. She spoke fluently.

Yeah.

And then she moved to Ghana.

And boom. Does not remember a single thing now.

Yeah. She's

got 19 and doesn't remember a thing in Finnish right now. Yeah. When you

don't use a language, it just, the muscle moves down.

So it's important to, the speaking is also very important as much as the learning. The theoretical one, the practice.

What resources did you use, and then were there any that surprised you? How useful they are or maybe how useless they are. yeah,

I, I had online, I studied, I was studying online finnish language Online. Man. I don't remember which, um, like particular, but I I know I was, I was doing it online.

Okay.

But it was not from YouTube.

Okay. I mean, YouTube had barely done anything.

it was not from me. YouTube, . Those days we had other resources that We were using, I don't remember now, some of them were like, I was like, okay, maybe this is too complex. There were some that were like maybe too complex for my level that time. So I wasn't really like understanding. Like, you know, that, but I was speaking some few things. Few things. Especially like the, the, the grammar. So online,

was it like articles or videos or movies

there were movies, but there were also like finnish language courses.

Okay. Okay. Specifically for online. For online,

finnish language courses online. Was there like

yle stuff or some other you, you happen remember?

I don't remember

for context, for those who don't know, Yle's Finland's, national Broadcasting Corporation,

but yeah, movies. And then I was also watching like the Finnish National Television. So that was also something I was watching I think. I, I, I fell in love with this, uh, Kauneus ja rohkeus

Oh yeah. You know, it's a Wait.

They have it,

it's a, it's a English show, which finnish subtitle.

Yes. with finnish subtitles.

The

Bold and Beautiful.

Bold and Beautiful.

Yeah, that's what,

in those days.

Yeah, that's,

it's been a long time. I've not watched that. I don't know if it's TV showing that.

Isn't that one of those TV shows that have been around for like 30 years?

Oh my. So it's like still. Okay. So many.

I think it's one of those TV shows That going for them.

so one of my favorite TV shows always had the subtitles there.

Sometimes it's such a underrated, I think mental, mental of learning because you are, you are enjoying what you're watching. And then you are kind of just using a bit of your brain to just add . Some learning to it. . What about, you also mentioned that you had a notebook with you when you were the care assistant. Where you just write things down When you were okay. So that's just one of the, the third. And then, um, and also how did you practice writing? Because you ended up having to be writing lot. So before you got to the stage of having to write a lot, how did you, practice The writing,

in the nursing field comes naturally.

There's with assignments from school and stuff like that,

it comes naturally the writing part in school, in the practice placement. 'cause you have to write how your care, your clients, your patients is doing and all that. Not, not today that we have more advanced, um, documentation systems that we just click and we just click like. You know, client vitals. . If it's okay, you just click, everything just comes there automatically. Like, you know, depending on how the client is feeling prefilled. Yeah. It's like, so you just select just like, oh, maybe the client's symptoms is here. Or she having running Stomach , having, you know, we, there's everything nowadays is we have this kind of, you know, about that things are already like, automated there. . So I don't think if for someone who wanna study, finnish Yeah. The, the documentation system nowadays wouldn't help But also there is also part that you still have to write like freely. . But for someone who doesn't learn, doesn't know finnish, and maybe you really don't have that motivation to learn. . You would go, you, you'll go, um, you preferably go to the automated ones like, , okay. The client is okay, or the client is not okay, or he has temperature or this, or the, the patient or whatever. . So you go with that, but also you can write more elaborately About a particular, scenario or whatever that is going on with the patients. But yeah, then we had, we had to write like, um, elaborately in the computer. Yes. And especially with the quarterly reports or even daily reports, it was my ward was that kind of ward that you needed that it was a rehab. One of the wards that I, it helped me also a lot with the, with the writing It was a rehabilitation ward that I was working. Okay. So we had like, there was active writing there. 'cause we have to do evaluation . Of the client's state. What's the, what's the situation we do sometime home, home, home tour. Or is it home checks to check if the client is suitable or the patient is suitable to go back home. What the condition of the home, you know. So as a nurse you are the advocate in the middle of this multi-professional team, you have to talk with the physio therapist and this, this, this, and then now you have to write your report in base of this and that, that, that, that you have to write all these things down. So in a rehabilitation ward, it helped me a lot. Okay. Because I remember when, when I got that job, I was somehow nervous. Like, you know, would I be able to, but I saw it as a, a challenge that I knew where I was going and thought like, this is. Something that will help me In my career part. . So yeah. And then I was elaborate talking also 'cause we had these multidisciplinary team, meetings. frequently for the clients to do different kinds of evaluations and Yeah. So, yeah.

So what observations have you made about I mean, you're not in people's heads, so from when you see other people learning finnish, what observations have you made about other people learning finnish? I think one is the fear to be embarrassed, the fear to make mistakes. And also,

nowadays things have changed a lot, especially immigrants or migrants in Finland, there are lots of opportunities. if you really don't have a vision, like you want to do it, you want to climb in your career ladder or whatever, like, you just wanna, you just, um, you can get a job in, in, without willingly speaking, you can have, pick up a job that can help you with your daily survival without you speaking finnish. . So those are some of the observations that, okay. Things have changed nowadays the job market, you know, is not as, small as it was back then. Now the job market is much broader.

. I think it's still, broader, but I would say it's still small. Okay. Yeah, because this is one of my issues with Finland as well, where I know a few, I know a lot of talented people Who, because they don't speak, finnish the system kind of does not select them. there, yeah. There's a guy who was studying computer science with me. he had done a medical degree.

Yeah.

But he was not interested in that anymore. So clearly the brain capacity exists. And then we were in the same class, and I remember being on projects with him, and this guy was like, you could tell, he's like, he's very sharp. After graduating, struggled to get a job, eventually found something, then again, something happened struggling to get a job, all because of the language thing. And then one of my friends, well, really sharp guy, incredibly interested in the specific part of Geoinformatics. Also can't find job because of the language thing. I have zero doubt that this was a lot worse. Back then, back then. But yeah, it's gotten better. the percentage is,

it's still bad, but

definitely better than it, it's

better than in those days, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, now maybe a bit more better opportunities. .

what I've also observed with people, especially in, my communities is, uh, most people come here and feel like, oh, I'm just here for maybe two, three years. And I'm going, I can't live in this country, this cold country, this dark country. so boring. They have no life. The language is so difficult. No, no, no. It's just two, three years I'm leaving. . And before you know, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. 12 years, And they're still there doing the.

yeah. Finland has a way of just keeping you, because if you manage to get your life remotely working, Finland will keep you here because things work.

And that's why it's, they always keep winning this happiest country in the world. Because things work and you allowed to be an independent person because everything else works in your life. one element that I really, really love is, um, public transport.

Yeah.

I, have no need to own a car. I've done my driver's license. I came to Finland. I didn't drive for a long time, so I forgot how to drive. So I had to do it again. I did it again. I got it last year. Or two years ago. Still haven't driven Since then. And now, every now and then comes up where I'm supposed to make you go on a date with somebody. Yeah. And then they're like, should I pick them up? But I'm like, I've never had a need for a car. I don't,

so you don't need either.

I don't need the car. Like I don't own the car. 'cause I don't need a car because I live in the capital region. It works way too well for me to own a car.

it's functional. I mean, we can rely on the public, public transport. . The things are really, yeah. basic things are fine here. Oh,

Very well done.

Yeah. So

everything, all the life essentials are work really well. Yeah. so the, the fear of embarrassment and making mistakes. And then, the whole thing about, oh, I'm just gonna be. Actually with my parents, this is a very good point. My parents are a great example They were like, oh, we're only gonna be here a few. They, they started advising everyone to learn, finnish Yeah. For the same reason. Like, Hey, we thought we're only gonna be here a few years, and then they ended up being here 20 plus years. and I guess my reason for doing this podcast is that if I was some, if I was their friend back then What advice would I have given them? that's why I'm doing this podcast because It's a way of explaining to people that, Hey, You probably should

Do this because

The

body of evidence is that a lot of people don't think they're gonna be here long. But they end up being here very long.

So,

yeah.

And it's a plus. Even if you're not gonna be here for long, it is a plus. You learn the language. . Because it will also help you for the time that you are here. Yeah. You'll have maybe a bit more better. Uh, standard, I don't know, whatever it is, you will,

standard of living,

of living, you know, it'll be much more better for you, even if you're not gonna stay. So that's what I don't get it. Like, you know, you don't wanna learn the language. you're saying you're not gonna be here, so you prefer, you know, just, leaving this, this, how they call, you know, this was it fast or whatever. Like this life, you know, like someone who is like a missionary or what, like someone who is just just passing

Just passing through you.

You're just passing through.

And no, it doesn't make sense.

I don't see the good in that for You without, you've been here at the end of day, you end up being in 10 years, 20, 15, and 20

yeah. That's a solid, solid point. so it isn't like a quite, difficult kind of thing to achieve. So when one day of realized what that is, you have to set up systems your life That help you to work toward the goal rather than not work towards the what are some passive things that you did that have already been set up or happen to be in a certain way in your life that helped you to learn first? for example, because of the work you were doing, you were naturally obliged to write. So that helped, things that? or orThings that just happened to be a certain way which you feel helped you move along.

Yeah. Also with my kids, all of them were born here. day to day life with the kids. They're going to school here. We have parents, teachers meetings in finnish. We have to attend the meetings. We have to help our children to study in finnish language. You know, we have to read, messages from Wilma where the teachers are sending texts about how the children are doing in school or whatever program or whatever, you know, plans they have, Those are things that I think they also played a very crucial part, with the language. I feel like, um, um, someone who has, has maybe children, I don't know, I could be wrong, but I feel like someone who has children, you have a bigger, Um, is it need or opportunity to learn the language if only you want, ? Yeah. And especially if your kids are studying in finnish, you have to be involved. we can't be passive in our children's education. Exactly. And that's something that is very core in our family, that we are very active in everything that concerns them. Of course. Like every parent should be. Yeah. Also in school. So we don't shy away every parent's teachers meeting. I am there and my husband is also there, but sometimes he's not able to be there, because of his job also, so I felt like somebody must be there. It shouldn't be like, you know, that if one cannot make it, then the other one too cannot make it. Maybe 'cause they don't speak the language. . Yeah. And yes, there were the beginning years. Sometimes I'll be there in meetings. I don't understand everything. But I'll be there. Yeah. And I, I try to always contribution, you know, because we had all these like, raising phones. Yeah. Seeing children when they go through phones for maybe some different kind of activities and I'll be participating. Sometimes I'm there selling Cambodia of puff or I'm doing braiding hair outside to raise money also in their hobbies, you know, meet parents there, we chat and all that. So those things, they help, they help a lot. . I know some immigrants or some, some, yeah. They, they shy away especially with the children's school stuff because of the language. So I'm asking myself why should you be involved? Even if you don't speak, maybe you can communicate in English. It helps a lot in also learning the language. .

My parents got a bit lucky with the education thing because mine was all in English. That was, that was also why it took me so long to get in to finnish. I've come to make this kind of realization where, I've seen this graphic online where it's like when you want your kids to read You don't, tell them to read, you are scrolling on the phone. , you should also read, You copy

from you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so, and I don't know why, but for the longest time I had this kind of like, eh, I don't need to learn this. I can do everything And then I grew up, and then I realized, oh, this is starting to affect my pockets .

And, uh, I like money. Yeah. So I was like, I have to do that, do that, what it takes to improve. But yeah. So basically in your case, the passive things were that basically that's sense of the kids in your life and their education. All of that helped with accelerating your journey and also your work also helped.

Yeah.

Accelerated the journey as well. Okay. And, what about the active things that you did? Like, did you have a study routine, speaking habits, et cetera? Things that you actively set up in a certain way or you chose like, okay, I'm doing this in this way.

we had this thing about, I had this thing. Okay. We had it. Yes. When my, with my friends then in school. This group of friends, we had this thing like every day we must learn one. One Finnish word.

Okay.

Every day. And we were young and carefree. Some people will see a little bit, like maybe show up, but young people, you know, who come to class and they'll be like, what have you learned today? Like, you know, we'll be doing those kind of things. these were really active things, but it helped even when after school, everybody went their own way. You know? It helped me even hours was actively, every day I have to learn one, work one year, work every day in my free time or, during work. Some days I'm not able to. Some days I'm not. But it was very conscious. It was a conscious thing And also how to reuse the language because there is a difference. There's a big difference with the spoken language and written language. understanding those different slangs where you are working Especially in customer service or you are dealing with, with patients in this kind of public, you know, you there's that you have to understand slang . 'cause there are different slang in Finland Yeah. in Finland that, yeah, you get, to learn these things when you start interacting with people. So I was also like, okay, oh, that's how they, they speak this. But yeah, I was just trying to learn every day, Learn something new. Those that are not even related to my field of studies. Just social stuff. So yeah. Personnel stuff.

And, you also mentioned that you had the, you would go to the store and, You had the habit of speaking to, you said whenever you go to the store You try and speak it. and also with your finnish friends, you were telling things like cultural differences, stuff like that. But were these things that you did on a daily basis?

I won't say like daily basis 'cause I didn't meet all the time when I finnish friends , but it was whenever we meet. actively But daily basis, I would say maybe that time with the television programs, the soft subtitles. .

Okay. what conscious changes did you make in your life that made it, it made it easier to practice than to not practice?

I think it was my circle.

. Okay. The school friends, you mean The immigrant friends?

Yeah. the finnish friends that I also It was something that I did intentionally. Because, well, not like, of course we had a chemistry. It's not like I just make anybody and then you just forced them like you sit down. I had really good people that we had really good, you know, we met through diff really good different instance. . But yeah, we became very good close friends and . Who were speaking Finnish. I would say kudos to them. I remember those, days, my finnish was, my finnish was off, but they would be speaking and they didn't really care. We would just be talking and we'll be laughing.

Yeah. I think that's a very like, almost universal finnish straight just is like, they're very kind when it comes to that. gracious. That's a very good term. I remember when, in my situation in 2022, I was like, if anybody speaks Finnish, we're only speaking Finnish. this is the part where you have to have some kind of, grit or be willing to impose your will on the world so that it works for you.

I had

a, a few friends who when I'm talking to them is of my story taking 30 seconds, it'll take maybe four or five minutes. . And then I have a friend who was trying to rush me through the story. And then he's not culturally finnish

Yeah.

You trying to rush me through the story, like, just say it in English. I'm like, and then I just like stare in dead in the eye. And they're just like, no, we're doing this. And if you, if you don't want to listen, yeah, that's too bad, but we're doing this and finnish. So it's like you have to be stubborn about

And

yeah. But, I've realized also like that integration is huge A lot of people from different countries When they come here, they just stick to people from their They only spend time with people from their country and then only watch television things. 'cause now we are like YouTube and that. So they don't watch finnish tv, they'll just watch things from their country or things that do comfortable watching or Netflix or whatever.

Yeah.

and it really affects negatively you are ability to learn. How do use, I mean, you mentioned that you have finnish friends. But how have you integrated yourself into content?

Well, by studying the language, I also love the culture. I love nature. maybe because this is my first country that I came. I came here very young, so I have all my young, experiences, those things. Yeah. We were going out and all that. I did it all here in Finland. Finland is home to me. And like, I, like I said, it was that conscious decision. Yeah. And I think there it is. It's, it. Is, it's, it's much more solid because my husband is here. when you're getting married to someone, it's like, this is it. This is somebody that I want to spend the rest of my life with. I came in with everything. Like, I placed everything on the table, like, okay, where you go, I go, And my mind was there. So, it just flowed even coming to a different country and learning the language, integrating into the country and all that. Yeah.

So you just had a natural affinity for, and then also you kind of made Finnish friend or friends who are not necessarily in your culture as well. . And even those who were from your culture, they were also eager to learn, eager to learn the language as well. So, Yeah. . from your experience when people don't succeed at learning finnish, what would you say is usually the, what would you estimate? What's usually the reason for,

firstly, not everybody is gifted in languages. I think I'm a language person. I, I love, I, I speak different languages. I speak a bit of French, English and a bit of Finnish and pidgin English. a little bit of, Spanish Italy. Italy, . So wherever I go, I'm already curious with the language. . So language is also language learning is, is something that is, is not for everybody. Not everybody has that. immediate motivation to learn a different language. also maybe age has a big role to play, ? 'cause when you are in your fifties, or you are in your late forties, Maybe you are not really motivated anymore. secondly maybe the, there isn't enough motivation for you. ' mostly people are motivated when they see the job market Maybe you know that, okay, I don't have job marketing. In this country or this, and Yeah. There isn't that motivation. Or if you've tried to apply. ' cause you, you have to be given also the opportunity, especially in the professional field. You have to be given the opportunity to learn. . And everybody must start from somewhere. So you have to be giving also at least have an access to that field.

So if you, if you don't, even if you don't have access to the field, so that's, that's also a problem. But it also depends on how high your expectations are. Because in every field you can start from somewhere. Even if you're a PhD holder, you are an expert. Yes. You're an expert in this field and because of the language they tell you that maybe you could start at this level. . I think it's advisable to take it, you shouldn't just shift it I am an expert and these people are giving me pin notes, . It could lead to something because what I've learned to the Finnish culture is this trust, they wanna know who they're dealing with If already they know that, you have the professional knowledge, are you able to do this job? We, in this, the finnish proficiency , your finnish proficiency . So that's also something that, I know this could be, it's not for everybody, but, that, the, the bar, you shouldn't put the bar like it is good to have visions and goals and all that, but you can start from somewhere. Especially when your language is not up to that level. You should be able to give yourself grace, you know, that. Yes. I will also take jobs that are maybe lower than my qualifications in that same field. . So, yeah. that's one. Also what will make people not learn the language? Also, like what I already mentioned, people thinking that they're just passing by in Finland, you're thinking that, okay, this is not my home. This is not where I wanna settle. I'm just passing by. There's no need for me to learn the language. And then you start counting how many million people in Finland, FInland is a small place. Why should I learn this very difficult language with just 5 million? What do I do with this? I should go to Canada. I should go to us, you know, where, you know, Fair, fair point.

Yeah. There was one was it pakistani but he lived in the uk so he, like, he grew up in the UK I met him at a finnish course and he spoke finnish on a level that was like, there's no way you speak almost as well as I do. , And he had, at that point, he had only been in finland for like three months for the six months before he came every journey to work, but he was a doctor. Journey to work. He was always listening to finnish podcast.

Yeah.

And so he just picked up To, I'm like, yeah, that's

The motivation was really high. Really high. Yeah. You have to be motivated. you have to do it yourself. Nobody is gonna, and I also forgot to mention that radio. I was listening to a lot of that. Radio stations. Oh, actually go through the different parts of the language learning one by one,

so maybe help you kind of remember. I think that the question now is what did you do that others don't?

I think I was intentional. Everybody's intentional, have to learn the language.

Yeah. Yeah. so if there are like six parts to learning a language At least from my little research. vocabulary, speaking, listening, grammar, reading, and writing.

let's just quickly go through how you improve each of them. how did you work on vocabulary?

the vocabulary was just about learning these languages every, like, new word every day. And and trying to understand the grammar. I studied that one, you know, online, through those courses. when communicating with patients and also when talking with my friends, I, I learned that one of course, during the language course that I had. Also, it helped with the vocabulary, learning one word every day. It helps a lot just using the language where wherever you have an opportunity, basic things in the bus, or you are going to take a bus or in the grocery store. .

In terms of like, getting new words that you don't know. So you had the, like new one, at least one new word every day. But did you, like, um, whenever you were listening, talking to somebody, you heard in your word Would you like write down? To study later? Or how or

Yeah.

Books or what?

Yes. I was writing some of them down. Not all, but I was writing some of them down. And especially ones that are really, like, they catch my interest. I'll be writing, but most of the time I write things that in my, in my understanding, I think I'm writing correct. But when, when I go now to research about that language, I realize I didn't write it. Correct. Because you can hear along, you can hear and think you're writing it correctly, but later I realize the spelling was not ,

And when you were getting the new words, were you memorizing them or how were you making sure they stick?

Yeah, memorizing them. I was doing a lot of memorizing. To be honest, I think that was also one thing that. Especially my field, I was doing a lot of memorizing because there are some things that I was using every day. . There was some specific words that I was using every day. . Vital signs and all that. So I was memorizing, But also I was learning like, okay, how can I, this maybe in the grammar, how can I use this in the past tense, present things, you know, those kind of like, yeah. ,

. And then number two is the speaking. did you get like, the volume of speaking in or

Just using it, the volume. you get it by interacting with people from different topics. Yeah. Trying to get yourself acquainted, exposing yourself to different topics. . So it helps also with the, with the vocabulary volume. if you are always talking about cooking If you are around cooks all the time Then you'll be limited in that sector. now, like with my friends, we'll be talking about cultural things, stuffs in Cameroon, how we doing in Finland. And then I have other friends that maybe we'll be talking about studies, those kind of things. So just different topics and just try to Learn those different vocabularies in those different fields. ?

. And um, like in your case as well, I think you, again, with the friends from school you were speaking, and then also with your finnish friends, you said you were speaking as well. And then also naturally at work. . Also speaking with the clients. The patients as well. Okay.And then the, I know of course you mentioned radio.

Yeah. I was listening to radio.

Podcast. Yeah,

it was, I don't know, was it podcast? It was radio. Podcast was not a thing so much back then.

Yeah,

it was radio. I remember how I used to listen to, this is it Yle something, this, there was this finnish news that I liked listening in the morning on my way to work or my way to school. And then also there was this like, music station , that they were playing finnish music. Yeah. And then they'll be talking about, okay, so there was a weather for today and . Blah, blah, blah. And you know, those kind of things. So yeah, that was also helping. And it was quite interesting. It was also sometimes accompanying me on my way to work, you are being informed about what's happening in the country. I realized that, I was understanding what they were saying. And, and then from there, how they speak. When you are listening, how they speak. You also mimic, you also learn that they speak in a certain you start also speaking in a certain way, like the nationals. ,

they have a way that they speak, they have a way that they pronounce words. They, they, they said a tone, a voice tone. How this, you know, those, those, all this, I don't know how they say it in English, but You mimic those

And then, with listening comprehension, how did you go about improving that one?

it was just being quiet. I think. I was more observable. Like when you're listening, you have to be quiet You observe a lot. I was doing a lot of observation in the beginning. Correct. I was reflecting. I was absorbing. And learning everything, like how they speak it. . You know, how the tenses and all these things. So you have to, when you the listening, you have to really, like, you have to observe, you have to, I mean, like, I mean, everybody, maybe others, they have their way. Like my children, I, I talk to them. I'm like, if you want speak the queen's language, you speak how the queen speaks it. When you wanna speak it that way, there is an accent if you really wanna speak the queens language. that's how language is yes, you can speak it in a way that somebody understand, but if you wanna really speak like the people who have the. Like the na, the is it nationals? You have to learn how they do it. You listen, you observe, you know, you mimic all these things. They're part of it. .

and also I'm guessing naturally you are listening to the radio, so that helps with that. And then from your speaking interactions as well, you are listening in, in engaging with that. Yeah.

Yeah.

And what about with grammar? How do you do about improving grammar? 'cause I think we haven't spoken much about

Grammar is something that I'm still, improving today. , . Grammar, finnish grammar. Yeah. That's another level to be honest. But that one, you have to learn it. You have to actively go on courses ' I I took courses. Later when I also climb my career ladder, I had to take courses, like to really learn the grammar. Especially in meetings, we have board meetings and all that. most of the times I'm representing my department in some kind of, regional, meeting with other managers or even like, uh, superintendents. So, I think maybe my personality, I like to be excellent. Yeah. finns, they don't really care, but in that kind of format, you are in a formal setting. . So you want to speak accordingly And it is also, maybe if we don't speak well, maybe it is also like, okay, can we really trust this? ? .

And just that it also kind of affects the perception of competence That people have of you. how well you speak. Yeah.

Yeah. But I'm not saying that things they judge your competence based on your, proficiency. I'm just saying that, With me, I just want to be able To give my best. Although I still make mistakes sometimes.

But You said, during the lesson, the first eight years I think definitely in the language course you did in the first 34 months, and then also in the finnish course you did was you were studying the nursing.

There was grammar improvement there. And then you said. Later on, you took some more courses specifically for the grammar? . when you say later on, around which time period was that?

that was before my master's. My master's program. Yeah. I already got a job. As their, deputy manager. So then I realized that I have to work

on this,

on my grammar.

Which year was this roughly? in 2000 and,

was it 2018?

Okay. So This is even 2000. This is even after you've, you've reached, after you've passed, like the high D . to c level level. . Kind of. Okay. Okay. Interesting. And that was a personal, it's not like someone told me. Yea. Because

my, my, my writing everything, of course, nowadays writing, everybody can write. We just go to google translate or whatever. Yeah. things are much more easier nowadays. But, yeah, it was a personal thing that I felt like, hmm, I need to work on my grammar. Yeah. . And I had to like do self study and even my job when I got this position, I had to, also study Finnish because there was also the demand for bilingualism .

So Finn Finnish was not enough. . I had to study also Swedish. Oh, , for you to get this position? Yeah. As a nursing manager. Okay. Yeah.

How I, to study. How far did you have to study sw?

Well, the Swedish, wasn't too, demanding because, the department where I, I, I'm leading, it's not Swedish speaking. But it's just a formality in Finland. Like if you're holding this kind of position, position, you have to, know, So I had to also,

okay. Yeah. And then, um, with reading, How did you improve the reading?

the reading, well, subtitles, I think, well, I read a lot of emails from work. . A lot. I have 2000, 3000 emails. I respond to all of them. So there is this constant. You are learning also from that?

From reading. Yeah,

from reading, . Yeah.

But in, the first five years, so . From oh five to oh nine. How did you,

I learned that from school, ? Yeah. During my nursing program. The reading thing. 'cause we had like reading comprehension. They'll be giving, somebody will be speaking and they listen how the person is speaking that also improves along the way, like, I, I won't say that I've read finnish books. . No. . I've never read Finnish book, actually. Okay, okay. Like, like, like a novel? . Like, you know. . Oh no, I, I did one I've done that, but Okay. Yeah. Maybe because I've read once I was this Michelle Obama.

Oh, you read that in finnish?

I read that in Finnish It was just so captivating Or maybe because I had access to the finnish one I think that's another finnish book I have read . . But it is a story that is maybe more, more, yeah. Michelle Obama that I read that.

Okay. Fascinating.

Yeah. The Michelle Obama's book. And which year would this have been?

Michelle Obama? I think that it was in, early two thousands that was about five years ago.

Okay. So 2020. Okay. So this,

yeah.

Quite recent, I guess. Recent, yeah. in the grand scheme of things. okay. And then writing, I think you Mentioned on that part You did a lot of that work yeah. Yeah.

And then there was this dictionaries also that I was using.

Can you elaborate?

there were books where you have translations That they would be like in English. English, they write it like this and they finnish like this On the other side. So I was using those kind of books also.

Okay. But were you rewriting what it says No?

I would just be reading it. Okay. I was not really like rewriting. Yeah. That's actually something I

try once where I just take a text that's already correct. And now I just force myself to write it. Just to go to the motions

Yeah.

of what correct text feels like if I deliberately practice Correct text. so in this years of you having sort of between year one to year eight or year. What were the times when you found it most difficult to continue chasing a goal?

That was, after my bachelor's level. . I started working as a registered nurse. Yeah. And I was in, hospital and I just felt like I'm not able to achieve my goals in this field. I was just looking at my environment and I was just asking myself like, I don't know, maybe it's Helsinki or maybe I should move to a different city. But I felt like it would be really, hard to get a leadership or administrative job in this field. So I just lost. Motivation. Yeah. Okay. To continue, like, not like continue learning the language, but to further my education. So there was a big gap from when I had my bachelor's degree to when I started my master's. . There was a huge gap there. that was because, I was aiming to something, but I felt like I was not getting it. So I started asking myself like, is it like, am I the problem or is it like I need to work on something else? I knew that for you to get this managerial position, I need to further my studies. But now I was asking myself like, should I go and waste my year studying masters or you know, doctorate that I might not even get the job Yeah. Because. Maybe nobody want to get, take me as maybe an immigrant. But then I came to realize that, maybe it's just a reflection of my own thoughts. Maybe this is just not the reality. Of how things are. Then I started getting feedback from work, at that time I was telling her supervisor Yeah. Yeah. By supervisor. And, and she was , I see you as a really good, manager or johtaja like leader. And I was like, really? You know, was like, okay. . And then my mentor, I remember she told me that Magda. you have to go back to school. You have a lot of potentials. but this field, there are some certain demands, like you have to have, some, proficient like, educational background, like the demand masters in this or that, and then doctorate. And then I was like, okay. I think that was when the lights just like, okay, I had this vision, but at one point the vision was slowly dying. 'cause I felt like I was trying, but I felt I was not given the opportunity. . I remember there was times that I even tried to apply and nobody gave me the job. , yeah. So then I went in before I even went in, I got this job. . As a, . Deputy manager. And that was when the light just like, . So I went now.

I did my,

yeah.

And around which year was this when you had this kind of motivation going down,

that was like, um,

or roughly when was the master's?

Master's was, 2020.

Okay. So between 0 nine and then 2020 the motivation is went , And yeah, that was when

I did my masters and then, I got this job. And even in the midst of the job, I had this opportunity to work as a, their, um, assistant. Um, um, like to do like sijainen palvelupäälikkö

um, what is that in English? it's like, when somebody is on some kind of leave. You, you are in your place. . And for what was that role? I don't know. How do this do, like palvelu päälikkö service manager, service head?

we are kind of responsible now for the nursing managers, ? Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. You know, the nursing fee has all these different positions. So yeah, I was really motivated there

, But what, what would you say was the source of losing that motivation? Is it like you, you felt like because of the language, You wouldn't get to go higher.

Or, Yeah. Because I felt that my language is not enough. And I felt like I was being self-critical. . Critique for my own self. I felt like, okay, somebody of my skin color. . They might not, maybe that's the reason why they don't want to take me. Maybe because of my skin color or my background, or . You know, but Yeah.

And, In that journey, is there any part of it where you felt like, I'm tired, or like, I don't want to keep doing this anymore?

You feel discouraged sometimes. Um, depending on like, like me, it was about, okay, where am I going It was about, I know that I can give more, I can bring more to the table, I can bring more innovations and development. I see a lot of things that can bring new light, how we can better the life of, patients or clients depending on the settings. But then, you start losing motivation when you feel like, you're not able to do those things, ? You feel like, okay, so this is it. I'm just gonna end up now like a registered nurse. But this is not my vision. of course with this also, you're helping a lot of people, but this is not my vision. So you start feeling like, I think that's most. At least to me that was like something that, okay, I want to climb ladder higher. I want to give back more.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

For someone who's going through those down What words of encouragement can you give to

Yeah, I'm gonna say don't give up. Keep chasing your goal. Keep learning the language. If you see opportunities, grab them. . Don't be self-critique. Like me, at one point I was feeling like, oh, my skin color, maybe, you know, nobody ever told me like, because of your skin color. It was just me. I was just reading the environment. I was using my own kind of, you know, maybe wrong emotional intelligence, like saying that. Because in my time I was actually one of the first black woman to have a position as a nursing manager. . In Finland. . before then, I think in our community, we had one lady who was like an assistant where she was like, this job is not for us. Let's just face facts. This position, these people will kill you. Like you, they will kill you. The pressure is to like, you'll be flat like a pancake. ? 'cause there's pressure of there. There's pressure here. Yeah. From the leadership, from the clients, from the, relatives. You know, you are just like being squished in the middle then plus your skin color. So, and then I was like, you know, those kind of advice you hear from those people are like that, but don't give up. . People's experiences are not your experience. hundred percent. Yeah. So don't give up and just keep fighting, Believe in that dream. Especially, if it's a vision that you know deep within you, something that you really believe so much in You know that this is what you want to do, and it's going to bring a lot of light to the places that you want to go Don't give up if you see job opportunities apply. Even if your language is not enough, don't give up Just be able to express yourself with the basic one. even if you get stuck. There are times that I've been stuck. When I have a presentation in my work, there are times I get stuck in finnish and I just speak in English. I say that particular word in English. In the board meeting. I say it in English.

Yeah. I have a friend who, very confidently, if it's wrong, he'll just say it wrongly. But you know what he's saying. If it, if he doesn't know it in English, in finnish, you just say in English. Yeah. Just keeps it going. Yeah. And I'm like, I aspire to that level of confidence.

It's something that, you know, it will help you also. Don't be too hard on yourself. we shouldn't be too hard on us, so I know, especially us, migrants or people, you know, different language. we moved to this country, we are really, really hard Yeah. On ourself. And of course the system also, because when you go everywhere and you are told like, finnish language, finnish language. Yeah. Yeah. But I, the, the little one you have, don't be shy to bring it out because that's what some people they do. Even with the little that they know, they're shy to speak. . Because they feel like they're not competent Enough.

. Yeah. And then finally, like our last question, I kept you for quite a while. how has your life become better now that you live in the country where you speak the language

A

lot more better. I have open doors, so many open doors when I just switch to finnish language. So many open doors, ? So many in so many different sectors. I can't even say it. . Yeah.

And for example, at least I, you mentioned earlier about your kids' education and their activities You are able to,

yeah. actively stuff.

Yeah. But yeah. Um, yeah, those are all the questions. So guys. Magdalene, Mado Uh, Magda and Mado.

Yeah. It's been pleasure having you here. This has been really like Yeah. And I, I enjoyed that you had so many stories and your excitement. This has been really great. thank you so much for agreeing to do this and I hope your story also inspires other people Thank you for having me.

This was my 2 cents. Yeah. Yeah.

Appreciate it. ​