006: Stop Saying It's Too Hard, That's Why You're Stuck - Emily

I think I'm tired of people complaining about how hard it Because I feel like if you keep thinking that it's too hard. And if you keep thinking that you cannot do it, then you cannot obviously do it. When you learn something, you have to be the stupid person in the room

You have to be comfortable. You have to learn to be comfortable being that. I generally have the same kind of format of question because I'm trying to extract specific information, which is the, how you did it and, , like the day to day because when I was a kid ​

I wanted to become a footballer, and then I bought football players books. Thinking that maybe they would teach how to become a footballer. And they never talked about that shit. , How did I find that you speak Finnish?

I think you asked on Instagram, right? And then I answer your poll or like, there was some, question box thing.

Okay.

And then we chat.

They were talking about it. Then we had a call and then we had a call in finnish.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you wanna like, just do a quick. Name and those kind of about you, metadata about yourself. Sure. If you wanna look there or look here or however. If you wanna do a quick one, maybe six seconds.

don't know. I always find that it's super, super weird to look into camera. Okay. When they do, you do like a two people talking it's like, Hey, I'm talking to the camera and then Hey, I'm talking to you. I'm talking. Yeah. It's, it's kind of weird. Okay. But, uh, well, uh, name is, uh, well, usually people, call me Emily. And, uh, well, I, at the moment I'm, um, entrepreneur. I'm a hairdresser. Uh, so I, work, as a hairdresser nearby currently in konepaja. So my Instagram handle, emily's uh, uh piste, so dot, uh, the hairdressers. Okay. Yeah. So that's my Instagram for my hairdressing work.

Hmm.

And yeah, and then we know each other from Instagram as well. We know each other from apart. We talk about this on Instagram. It's like a good way to connect people. I find that it's quite easy to ask people question like this, like, Hey, anyone know someone who know this thing? Or like, can offer this thing and Yeah. People just drop an answer in the box. It's pretty helpful.

But I also come to realize that it seems only like a certain percentage of people bother to.

Well you have to have certain, let's say, wrap up with the person, I guess. So like you, you, uh, for example, we occasionally comment on each other's stories. True, true, true. And things like that. So you do have some interaction with the person already. Then they might bother probably to answer. Yeah. But if you don't, then then yeah. Then yeah. Yeah. Sure. I actually recently recognized that I didn't do much on Instagram like that. I thought I spent a lot of time on it. But I didn't use it to interact with people. So like, you know, story doesn't count. But you have to kind of comment. You have to make

Yeah.

Comment in their photos. We don't do that a lot anymore

I've been doing this podcast now, I've been using the podcast account name to comment everywhere because I'm trying to get it to reach just many people as possible. Yes. Yeah. I, I recently even created a Reddit for it. Yeah. And then Reddit keeps blocking me from commenting 'cause I'm commenting too much. Yeah. But, okay. So, briefly, how does Finland show up in your life story? What brought you here? How long have you been

I think I've been here now for about 13 years. Maybe 2012. It came up as an option to study abroad. Because my family has some, friends, well, friends of friends, so like daughters, uh, uh, were already in, in Finland. Know that Finland has the option to study for free. And then of course, like when the tuition fee is, is. Cut away. . Then it's the living cost is something that you could adjust. . So then it's very, it's make it very appealing at that point, right. At that time.

They've taken that away now.

Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. So it's no longer like that appealing.

Yeah.

If you have to wait in the, also the quality of education. Mm-hmm. And cost of living as well. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Right. So 13 years ago, moved to Finland for education. What did you study?

I studied international business.

Intern

yeah. Okay,

cool. Yeah. And, what prompted you to like, learn the finnish language? Was there like a specific turning point or a need that pushed you?

I think that in the first three years I didn't plan to stay here. So I was like, I'm gonna move somewhere else. Yeah. I tried to move abroad, move somewhere else. Move to Spain. I was in Spain for a year. I was in the Netherlands for a year, and I tried to learn those language as well as, yeah. So then, so then in a way, like I, I, I, on at that point, I was like, I only do finnish course of school because I have to. Right.

But I didn't learn the language. The beginning is always the hardest when you move on from that point. My English wasn't even this good as well. Then you have to finnish as a third language. and it's so hard. It's like one of the hardest language in the world, right? Mm-hmm. So, so Finnish is, is challenging and you feel like you're stuck all the time at these a one or a two level, and you can't really speak to anyone. You

As soon as you say like minä olen , you sound stupid. It's often our, it's not for us, but The Finnish people, they're not used to a non-native speaker at that point as well. Mind you, it's 10 years ago. When you speak, they are not used to having a foreigner around them speaking their language.

Right?

So then they would laugh. They would laugh at you.

Okay. Because the, the sentiment I've heard is actually quite opposite. Maybe people who are comfortable with you might laugh. . But then just normally when the sentiment I've had with just randoms is Yeah, like yeah, they just try to extract whatever information you're trying to convey. And then if you are close with them, like one of your friends, they might laugh at something you're saying or try to help you Correct. Whatever you're saying.

I used to live not in Helsinki it's very different from small town and then city.

Okay. That could be a

So then, when I decide to stay here, yeah. Then the natural path would be to get permanent residency or citizenship, and Citizenship is always something that required the language for sure. Then I have the option of either learns Finnish or Swedish. Right.

Right.

But I find that, in my, this is around, let's say five years later. . Let's say around 2017, I start working. Full time, after my graduation, I realized, okay, maybe I should learn a little bit of finnish so that it makes my working life easier. I could also, understand what people need sometimes. And then, between 2015 and 2017, I have a tutor. . For finnish. Yeah. Finnish. .

And he taught me Finnish in my own language, so in Vietnamese.

Oh, that's, that must be very useful.

Yes, it's very useful because then he speak English as well. So then of course he can compare Finnish to both Vietnamese and English.

Right.

So you make different correlation. And that's how I, I mean like, I think that improve a lot during that time, but even after that, I still can only speak like. Simple stuff,

right?

Yeah.

You moved to Spain and the Netherlands for a year each? Yeah. And then.

This was before 2015.

So this was in year two and year three.

Try to move about. Yeah.

Yeah. But didn't you also have studies going on?

Yeah, like, uh, I did, uh, because those are into my study, integrated into my study.

They're moving.

So, internship? Yeah. . And, exchange. So those are the two,

Right. But then you,

but I extended it. So then it's one year each.

One year,

basically.

Okay. And then, you said you got a job and the job was also in English?

Uh, in English, yeah. I did, uh, I work as a, uh, a waitress.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. 'cause just generally being able to find jobs that you don't require finnish Is not too common. I mean, there's a good amount.

I work in English, even until now. I still one, um, uh, before if I work in restaurant, yeah. I prefer to use English.

Okay.

I still work in English

Yeah.

But basically the hairdressing, the job I'm doing now is my first job, but I'm completely do it in finnish. Okay. So everything from setting up the, business and, tax matter. And dealing with my colleague apply and everything is in finnish.

Okay.

Working with customer in finnish. So that's my, this is my first job in finnish.

In finnish.

Yeah.

Completely If I'm to recount what prompted you? So

citizenship.

Citizenship was the or like,

you know, if you want to permanently stay here. Right. But basically it's like, it's one of the thing I consider you should know, basically. Right. Okay. I always find that it's kind of, rude if I carry the finnish passport. And don't speak Finnish.

Right. Right. Fair, fair point. Fair point.

is, it's weird,

right?

say on your paper you are Finnish, but you don't speak either Finnish nor Swedish. Finnish. Yeah. Okay. You, you could speak Swedish. Sure,

fair enough.

But,

it's not enough for you, I guess

It's actually learning Swedish.

You learn Swedish now. Okay.

But I'm, I'm not learning the finnish swedish, you know, they are different as well.

can you walk me through like, uh, like the learning journey and then like what things worked and what things did not?

having tutor to work, self-study works for me. I'm, I'm not saying it works for everyone. Class is absolutely not working for me. I hate going to classes. 2017 2018, around that time I start, I wanted to take YKI during that time. I got my YKI in 2018.

Okay.

so I first went to a class I don't remember if this was a YKI specific class or, just a normal finnish class level I think it was YKI specific.

Okay.

I think they put me in a class where they learned the suomen mestari number three.

Okay.

And then that book was, was, uh, like hard enough, you know, the level is hard enough for YKI. The class was three times a week.

Okay.

I think two and a half hour, per class. But it doesn't work for me because my work schedule , so I cannot get off work earlier than what I could back then. So then I'm always late to class around half an hour late to class. right. And the teacher knows that.

Yeah.

But because of the traveling and, going there,

yeah.

Going, getting from one place to another, then I'm missing all the time, the homework, the way they correct the homework.

Right. That's very good point. Okay. .

So that's useless, right? . even if I had the time to do the homework

Yeah.

Before coming to class, I don't know if my homework is correct or not.

So you don't close the feedback loop at all. Yeah. It's like you just did the work, but you don't know if it was Correct.

Yeah. So yeah. So that's, maybe why it didn't work for me because of that.

Yeah.

From the class I have learned that, the lisää harjoitus at the end of the book, two actually really hard.

Okay.

And you just need to do that. If you manage to do that without making mistake. . And you are ready for YKI. And

was it so that the book, for context. The Suomenmesatri is this series of books, I think it's the most popular one that is used for learning finnish.

Yeah.

And, lisää harjoitus means more exercises and, I think, those ones have the answers at the back of the book. Yes. Right?

Yes.

so it was good to crosscheck.

Okay.

Yeah.

I remember class didn't work for me because of that reason. traveling time takes too much time. My work schedule is tight. It's quite a lot of work if you work eight hours a day and then go to class for another two hours. And then by the time you get home you exhausted.

Right.

And traveling, I was living in Espoo back then and traveling was.

Right. And where was that course? It was in Omnia. Okay.

In Espooo.

Okay. So, you were working somewhere in Helsinki

in Espooo

Espooo?

Back then I was in Espoo.

Espoo. Okay.

Working in Espoo. Living in Espoo,

yeah.

And studying there.

Okay. It took quite a bit to get from work to that course.

after three months of the course, I didn't think I retained much information. Yeah. Or like I learned much or like I improve a lot. Right. So I decide that okay, now I need different approach. Because course doesn't work for me.

Yeah.

But I couldn't, at that point I couldn't afford tutor.

Right.

'cause tutor would have been also something easier.

Right.

'cause the tutor I had before was in, so I cannot have it the same

in Helsinki.

It's a private,

yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So like it's a small class, but I did with my friends. And he did it as a gesture.

Okay.

Yeah. So he kind of helped us rather than like, we have to pay a lot of money.

Yeah. Okay. So,

that's how I could afford it before. Right.

was just gonna ask if, you know, you have a little trust fund somewhere, but you can include me in

It was like 5 euro per class or something like that. That's how I could afford it. Okay.

Yeah. Gotcha, gotcha. Okay. So, tutoring work, self study work, but classes was a no go for you. Yeah. And the main reason was the work schedule and Yeah. Yeah. And then also, like on a more functional level, the fact that you couldn't close the feedback loop of whether your exercises were correct or not was, and also you weren't there for the teacher to be able to explain

Yeah.

Why things Do you feel like, 'cause I've been thinking of how Chat Gpt would be useful for my learning now. Because I, when I did it, it wasn't there. Do you for. Being able to close the feedback loop, do you feel like chat Gpt would probably be useful?

Nowadays I actually use chat GPT for my writing as well. Okay. So I would try to write as much by myself, , and then, and then I would run it through chat. Gpt I use, I don't use chat gpt , but I use what is that? Cloud? A cloud? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. they're a bit better I think.

Okay.

I would say.

Okay.

I find the writing more natural

in that one.

In cloud.

Okay. I pay for chat gpt and ever since thenI've never bothered to try any other one.

Okay.

It gets the job done

Maybe the paid version of chat Gpt would be better, but for me, chat Gpt is, uh, so far chat g bt question or like, answer to me. It's very USA centric.

Oh, okay.

It's not very European centric.

Interesting. Okay. I

don't know why

to check that out.

everything I ask it. Yeah. It's like giving me very USA centric.

Okay.

It's like, this doesn't make sense in this market. Yes. . And for example, sometimes this is cheating, but I use chat to write for me as well. And I would tell chat to write it in, the level I am at. So I mentioned that you do not write further Than higher than B2

Right. Okay. So then

I can proofread it myself.

Right, okay.

And I can learn from that. . And I can understand that. . That's if it's make mistake.

Okay. Okay. That is actually that as well. Yeah. That's actually a good strategy. Yeah. And this is also exactly one of the reasons why I do this. So that. Because everyone has their own little tricks that they do for this. once you achieve your goal, it just kinda stays in your head. But I want to spread that information.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. so at which point would you say you reach B2?

that's a good question. Yeah. So I would say on paper it's 2018.

Okay.

Realistically speaking, I would say two years ago. So like in that, make it 2020, 23, 23, 22. Okay.

Interesting, interesting.

so I passed my YKI everything on the first try but that's B1 though. Okay. That's the thing. but on paper. I have enough proof to get the citizenship. Yeah. And I got mine I think a year, year and a half later. Okay. but then after that I think it's not actually become part of my daily life like actually being able to read, produce and talk to people until I force myself to go to school in finnish .

Right.

Yeah.

Okay. Um, then, uh, yeah, so say 2018 to 2022 is when you feel like you reached that level. Right. So that's between year five to year 10. Basically some, sometime it's a large gap. It's a large gap.

it's a long gap.

Yeah.

but I would say the first three years of that, yeah, there wasn't any improvement that much. . I speak here and there at work. simple, uh, questions. Simple, simple requests. . I carry simple stuff, but as soon as, let's say in a restaurant, because I was still working in restaurant, then let's say if people have some complaint, complicated complaint, and I compliment more further than that, then I'm stuck. . I cannot speak anymore.so I cannot also like, like, explain to them in finnish. So that's the level I was at that, that three years. . Of course. in that three years, I think I gained a lot more. And more confidence In speaking so that, you know, I, I know I could speak simple, um, conversation. Mm-hmm. And then, but if it's, if it's come to something important or something complete, co come more complex. So especially if I have to express a lot of my opinion in the matter

Yeah.

In English still.

Okay.

Yeah. So I still couldn't do that in finnish.

Gotcha. Yeah.

But that is one of the harder things as well.

It's, it's, yeah.

Like, you know, even in writing, if you have to write the opinion piece Yeah. Me, it's always harder.

That is a fair point. what resources did you use and were there any that surprised you about how useful or how useless they were?

I think I used a mix of everything. uhh suomen mestari

so the book.

Yeah. Yeah. Then,a bunch of these book that people usually recommend for YKI learning.

Okay.

So then, from like

novels or like textbooks where you have exercises, textbook.

These are textbook. Okay. So from start to finnish. That book is very good for grammar, understanding the language, how it's structured. But it's written in a way that is very, for linguistic, like linguistical. So it's not very, realistic, you know, like not very, uh, uh, close to like real life situation. But if you are the type that you need to understand things before you can remember it. then that book is really good. And it's explained in English. . So, so of course. . And that book actually really good also for some, writing rules. and, the alphabet.

Because they, they mentioned this rule where like, ä, and, ö, always go together so you can have a and ö, together in the same letter. Yeah. Uh, in the same, um, sana Word.

Word. Yeah.

so then those things, that book is good for it,

right? Right.

Then kynä käteen. That's a book for writing.

Okay.

Then there's I think it's ykaanko vai ylinkiinko ykaanko vai ykinkoo That book,

I've not heard of that one before. Yeah.

That book is really hard. It's one of the harder book. . That if you aim for higher score or if you feel like you want harder exercise than that book is the way to go.

Okay. But that book,

you can study that book, then of course for sure you pass the YKI-B like keski-taso so easily. Right,

right.

Yeah.

Have you heard of the valtio something test, I just interviewed her one, somebody for this, and she said she, she got into law school, in finnish, which is crazy after like four years. Crazy.

That's crazy.

Yeah. And she had to do that test for that. And I feel like maybe this book might be useful for that level. 'cause that's, that's beyond the YKI test.

The harjoitustekee mestari that one is also very good. . For like, a bit higher level.

Okay.

Especially with the higher level of that book series as well.

Okay.

Yeah.

Right.

So those are probably my book resource . Then I use a lot of,everything that yle kieli offer.

Mm-hmm.

Like you just make that up, sometimes they have pretty old material there,

What do you mean by material?

Like the material bank that they have has been there for years.

Ah, so

material is not up to date. Yeah. I'm not sure if, you know, YKI nowadays is different from YKI in 2018. Right, . But one great thing about them is that they, some of their exercise, it's like automatic checker, so

Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah.

You can get, you can get it checked Automatically on the system. . And they have this, whole application on phone. That give you a subtitle for the simple TV show in finnish.

I saw something like that. but it was, after I had already gone through my journey of learning.

So

I didn't really bother.

That one is still good for even higher level. Okay. 'cause of course they have different level of, material there.

Right.

And then the great thing is that their subtitle, when you input your level

mm-hmm.

Or like, yeah. When you input your level, the subtitle, mark the word in the subtitle, which level is belong. So sometimes even though I'm a B2 level, when I watch those things, I still see like word that marked as A1 level, but I'm like, I don't know this word, It's color coded. green, uh, yellow and red. red is like. Higher level,

right.

So then it's marked there and if you want, you can slow it down and see the meaning in English as well. The subtitle for the finnish run,

is this the one they call yle kielikoulu

Yeah, I think kielikoulu or something like that.

Because I saw on LinkedIn there was a whole thing about the fact that they were ending it. Oh, because they were making financial cuts. And they decided to cut yle kielikoulu

I'm not sure if they are still keeping, maybe not updating it. . But like the material, I hope stay there. . Because I think it's a very useful like, things to have.

Yeah. '

'cause you practice listening, you practice, reading at the same time. .

and you learning new. Work at the same time. ? Yeah. . Okay. But otherwise, on nowadays, I usually find that yle areena is always good. . Because they always have subtitle. . And you could also slow it down. . So then, you can always watch those.

I love that yle has, selko kieli so the selkosite. . So simple, simpler finnish. but sometimes the selkouutiset, this is a little bit boring. I find that it's actually extremely hard to move find material to move from B2 to higher.

How so?

Because you are not. Super high to read something complicated. . But then, because people don't talk enough about this level, like B2 to C1 mm-hmm.For example, B2 to C two. . So then you don't know, okay, where do I get material for it? Okay. Rather than just learning by, like passively in a way that you just absorb whatever comes to you like news and anything really. But let's say if I wanna find a book to read, then I don't know which one, what book would I recommend for,

uh,

for B2 to C1 or C two

for me? Uh hmm. I read this book by, You know the Konmari Marie Kondo? Mm. I read her book in Finnish . That was, yeah. It was quite light reading. Mm. So. It was just about home stuff. So it's like objects you have encountered and a lot of principles already encountered. So it wasn't too hard. There was, I still had to use dictionary for a lot of words. Mm-hmm. But it wasn't like, it wasn't like I tried to read Sapiens that was, oh

no, why would you do that? Why would you do that its even hard in English?

Exactly. I didn't know. I got it. And then, and this was also at the beginning of my, when I, when I was like, decided to go, it was at the beginning of, and I was like, what? Why did I do this to myself? This was so hard. Yeah. I read one third of the book, which is a lot. then I gave up and then I switched to the, uh, Marie Kondo. And then I read this book about, a north Korean spy who did, I think it's called Tears of My Soul. . Who did this? airplane bombing thing. Suicide bombing thing. Yeah. And, not, not, not quite that, but, where the smuggle a bomb onto, a South Korean plane. that was also quite interesting reading. It was not too difficult language, so that was quite good. Yeah.

because I think, at the moment my, struggle is, to write. longer text. . Email. I can, message. I can, but at the same time I want to write maybe mielipide there. So like opinion piece like a bit longer. Or like if I need to fight someone in the comment the keyboard Yeah. In the comment section. Exactly.

Yeah.

I need to do that.

I think I still struggle with that,

it's not easy.

It's 'cause sometimes you miss the nuances of their sentence that they are saying.

Yeah. And then you miss that. And then you also miss, the humor I haven't got . The the cultural humor. I haven't got. .

the idioms, I haven't got that many. Right. Yeah. those things are like, you know, it's a pretty common problem to face at this level.

Yeah. A hundred percent. you have to read old text. Like, Old religious books, for example, would probably have idioms and stuff so resources that you use or, uh, books, uh, like text, workbooks, basically. Yeah. And then yle kielikoulu or, yle kieli then TV shows with subtitles?

Right. Okay.

Gotcha.

And then selkouutiset,

okay. Was that like,

and of course I speak as much as I can at work.

Right. But the selkouutiset, is it like radio or

They have both.

text.

They have both, text and, and, and like, uh, like, uh, audio.

Yeah, because I, I, I only use that one. I mainly use the podcast.

yeah. But then they, they, they have both. And that's really good, I think.

Right. Okay.

And then, well, there's some YouTube that I like. . Uh, was that like Finnish, that's the, I think

"Finnished",

yeah. . I think so. That's was the one

I've heard his name

podcast, yeah. And then another person I follow, I can't remember her name. Um,

on social media or

Yeah. So then, I don't remember, but one of my favorite website as well Uusi kielemme I love that website

was very good for . Like, understanding why some things were the way they were

Exactly.

And then because it's already, structured. Already intersection. . And if you understand it, then you know exactly which section you need to drill at that point. Yeah. For example, if I'm writing and then I'm like, oh okay. I know what type of, conjunction I need here. . But then I don't remember how to conjunct it. I can go to that website and I go to that exact

on how to

type of, yeah. How to do it and refresh my memory a little. I use that a lot nowadays. Still in writing as well.

Yeah. It was one I discovered quite late on.

Oh really? Yeah. Okay. That's one of the first website I use. Very useful though. Very. It's a very old website, but it's

okay.

Okay. But it works and it's really good. I remember this one, link that I have. I have a folder on Google Doc about all of my YKI material.

Oh, okay.

And there's a list of website that I visit and I use for my, for my study.

Right.

There was some website where they listed, uh, I have material that I use only couple days before the test. . So that I only review the most important things. Important things. . For example, like. 50 verb you need to know.

So that you make sure that you get these, because everything in tests is also test taking skill as Know everything, but then if they don't, you don't know the thing they ask, then that's like, , that's the problem. . wanna nail your test, then, you know, in Asia we study for the test.

gotcha, gotcha.

We never, we study everything, but we also study specifically just for that test. d you learn tricks that, that, that you need to make sure you try to structure down, let's say your, Dialogue, for example. . Yeah. But those thing I learned also from when I did the TOEFL iBT as well. Mm. Yeah. Because the YKI is similar structure to TOEFL .

, Okay.

Because when you speak to a machine,

yeah.

they cut, they cut right there. You have exactly 30 seconds

to say. Okay.

So if you don't have an outline You don't have a structure to your speech, you will easily miss out the important thing. you cannot finnish your sentence.

Right.

Because if it's with a person, Even if you need two seconds, they will give that to you. Yeah. But with a machine, you have to learn usually. Well, that's a whole, uh, test taking is a whole

science on the top,

a whole conversation really. Yeah. About, about how to take the YKI really. ? Yeah.

of the different resources that you tried. Which ones did you think were kind of useless.

Anything useless?

this doesn't work for me.

Some, I mean, some online tests or like some online exercise.

Mm-hmm.

I guess, but it's, I don't remember it anymore.

Yeah. Like specific on layer. So basically there were some online tests that worked, some

online tests that worked and some don't. Some did. Okay. But it's, you know, it's whatever. You get more harjoitus,

I suppose. Yeah. Because practice.

of them are just use less just because they are too easy. Ah. So for example, they are saying that, this is like a practice test for YKI. But then you do it, you are like, this is a two level. It's not enough. . Like it's too easy. . it's not hard enough. But apart from that. Nothing really. I think, it's such a hard language and to be honest, just need to pass the YKI. You need to handle the past tense really well. . And the past tense is the most annoying, tense ever in finnish. I hate it so much. . I still hate it. I'm still very bad at past tense.

So what observations have you made about people learning, like from your standpoint, what have you noticed about how other people learn? Finn,

I think I'm tired of people complaining about how hard it is. . Because I feel like if you keep thinking that it's too hard. And if you keep thinking that you cannot do it, then you cannot obviously do it.

Right.

Because you don't have the motivation. You should think that it's hard. sure . But this must be a way. and for me, it's like, well if you just try to learn other language before you come back to it, then you are like, what? Make this so hard? It's annoying, but what makes this so hard? it shouldn't be this hard. . But again, it's like even the Finns can't really speak it properly.

Fair point. Fair point. That is actually Yeah. Heard. Just so you know.

So even them, sometime that they argue with each other like how to conjunction . To say the word. And especially as language evolve as well. They have new words.

Right.

That I'm like, how they are not linguistic to study the language in a way that they know the rules.

Right.

They speak it because it sounds right to them.

There's a thing with native speakers.

Yes. It sounds right to them. Yeah. And then, and then if they have a borrowed word, a loan word Then how are they gonna decide how to conjuct it?

Right.

Because they don't know the rules themself, so they just say how it sounds. And it might be wrong if you, put it next to the rules. , Yeah.

. That's actually point. Yeah.

Yeah. So, I think, with English as well.

My level of English now and my level of English, before are very different as well. And then even if you talk about English literature . There's different writing style and different writing, because of the period it was written in.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

You might think you speak English, but you don't. Yeah. Let's say Shakespeare. Right? Like it doesn't written in how we speak. How we speak. Yeah. Yeah. So then you can say, you know English, but you don't know Shakespeare. Yeah. That's it. So it's the same with any language. You have to remember that. But it can be hard because of different reason. Not just because you don't speak the language or you cannot learn it.

Yeah.

So you have to have that attitude about it as

well. On, on that specific thing. 'cause I, I grew up with my grandma and She was Catholic with the Bible there was the King James version. . And then there's the new King James version. the new King James version is like modern English.

Okay.

But then there's the King James version where they speak like Thee, Thou, Thine . Those kind of, words. And then I remember, 'cause I read a fair bit and I, I used to remember how to use that as a kid. And I would go around just saying that and people would be like, oh my God, he speaks so good English.

It doesn't mean anything. It's just a different period.

It's a different period

because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's good.

I was probably using it wrong, but yeah,

like finnish dialect as well. They make fun of each other dialect as well. Yeah. Which is a, which is a funny thing, another funny thing. But yeah, the more you learn, the more you understand the language, you realize that okay. It's hard. Yeah. But it's also hard for native speaker.

Hundred percent.

Doesn't mean that you should have that attitude that you cannot learn it because it's so hard. . 'cause even native speaker have like, struggle with it. . Because, and the level we aim at as well. Let's say your, last, interviewee, pass a law exam . In, in Finnish. Right. That is hard for native speaker.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is

the content alone is hard. Yes. But the language level as well,

it's also quite difficult.

Exactly. You have to learn

Fair point,

a certain way to write and construct sentences as well. and For many, I know on a daily basis they also have trouble writing. .

it's a skill that nowadays people don't use a lot. . don't be too hard on yourself.

okay. observations that you've made and that people often think it's too hard. Is there any other thing that comes to mind that you've observed about how other people go about learning Finn?

I think this goes with every language. I think that you are a little bit shy to speak. I know some people who are not shy to speak. Okay. And like to, to make mistake.

Okay.

you probably should make a lot of mistakes.

Yeah. I have one friend, Miku, shout out to Miku. he's finnish Australian. And when I heard that guy I was like, Lord, give me the same confidence because. He just say his thing.

But that's what,

completely wrongly.

Exactly. But that helps them to learn so fast.

Like egregiously wrong. I'm sorry bro, egregiously wrong. I know those people. But you understand what he's saying. And in the process of him doing that, he learns by like, he's just iteratively just improving how it's

exactly.

Learning.

And that's how they, I have, uh, this one person I know as well, he would just, uh. Every person he met that comes from a country speaking a different language, he would learn a few sentence, literally sentence, not just words, sentence from that country. Interesting. And he keep repeating it. He keep repeating it until he get it into his head. Like three times, four times right there on the spot. Yeah. And then the next time they see the, he see the person, he be able to produce that sentence again.

That's smart.

So that's also one thing because he has the confidence to speak it wrongly. Right, right. And always say it out loud and repeating it.

And you get good practice from doing that.

Yeah. And your, your, your brain get a good like, you know, memo.

Yeah.

I think that's one way to learn it as well.

are there any, surprising or unconventional things that you did that other people might not think of?

Hmm. I think it's mostly just a test taking strategy,

right. For the, at least for the YKI test,

That's probably something I did differently.

So nothing really unconventional that you kind of tried for?

Not really.

Okay. And then one thing I've come to realize about, I mean, you can have a good mindset about it, but it is a goal that requires. Some goals require 500 steps and some goals require a thousand steps. This one of the goals that require a lot of steps. Lemme put it like that. And it makes it a lot easier to achieve the goal when you have, things set up in a way. if I am, trying to overcome, cocaine addiction, it helps to not have cocaine lying around the house. Or alcohol or whatever. I would imagine it, kind of helps to make it a little bit farther out of reach. Right. But, so in that regard for achieving such a difficult goal, what, what are the passive things in your life that you did like, things that happened to just be some way or passive things that you set up to be in a certain way that just helped you along with the goal?

so,

or like having your phone in a specific language, those kind of things that You said it one way.

I don't do any of it. My phone is still in English because I find that it's easier to navigate. . I know a lot of people stick every sticker everywhere. .

for home. But that's for me. It's only, I, I do some, I do, what is that? the memo card thingy? Uhhuh? I forgot.

Like a notebook?

like a ring. I have a, flashcard.

Flashcard, yes. Okay. I do flashcard. But I mean, that's a kind of an active process. I'm talking about just, things that

Yeah. Yeah. Like passive I really, I really don't have anything like that.

Okay.

I think I don't have that because everything at work is in English as well.

so work was in English were there any like environments where in those environments you just spoke Finnish

at work? I mean, I do, I do speak with. Customer

in Finnish.

In Finnish.

So that's an example of, so it's not like something where you always have to make it happen, but it just happens to be that way. Yeah. So that's a good example.

I still love reading all of the Uutiset that comes on the metro, you know? like, the ones that

come for a few seconds.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. That's it.

I love reading. usually I try to just read the titles. And then sometimes I don't even understand the title, so the titles sometimes are really hard already.

Yeah.

So that's the sentence I'm trying to understand.

Right. But title language is usually not necessarily, doesn't necessarily follow normal Language rules, yeah. Yeah. Or sentence rules, Okay. And what about, so active things. What are the active things that you, did you have a study routine speaking habit?

I for the YKI test. I study every day. .

One hour, maybe 30 minutes. One hour

For how long of a period

for the tests only, yeah. So then three months for the test, three before every

studying every day.

Okay. So that's the intensive.

Yeah.

But nowadays I mostly learn things passively you know, I just let it come, like passively. Yeah. So I don't, I don't, actively seeking out material. . Yeah. I mostly just, if my friend send me some news then I read it. .

if I have some document that I have to read, then I usually read it instead of running through translates.

This was in year, uh, YKI test for you was in year five and you only started trying to learn it, from like what year three, year two?

Three, maybe three, four.

cause yeah, you had the exchanges and the internship abroad.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. but during that time when you were trying to learn it apart from, encountering it at work you were also doing the course and the tutoring and stuff like that. what other active things were you? Okay.

I think that's about it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. and then, okay, this is another kind of take on a question I've asked earlier, but what conscious things did you, changes did you make in your life that made it easier to practice than to not practice?

Speaking, finnish to customer.

Okay.

customer even come in that they, before that they speak English to me, but then at some point I switched to finnish completely. '. Yeah. Okay. So that's definitely the change I made.

That's a conscious decision. And then what about, uh, what anything else that you

I'm trying to switch to finnish with some of my longtime friends. It's very funny 'cause they're not used to it. . Um, but yeah. But still I communicate with a lot of people in English still. Okay. that is something I think I'm gonna make. Then, uh, what else? I, I don't actually have any specific, I think I have a notebook specifically for the duration of study.

Yeah.

But yeah, other than that, nothing special really.

Okay. And what about hobbies? Did you have places where like, okay, here I only, I I only speak finnishing this place?

Uh, no.

No. Okay.

But like, um, like as I mentioned, so then the YKI is like 2018. But I think I improved a lot in the past, uh, years after that. Mm-hmm. and I made the decision of going to study for my hairdressing degree. Diploma in Finnish. . So that's thing, I think that's one of the conscious, like biggest decision as well because I feel like I really want to be able to speak it as part of my daily routine and everything and working in it and. Well, your, last interviewee is Choose law. Yeah. I choose, hairdressing because it's a bit easier. And it's something I'm interested in as well. Of course. . Yeah. Otherwise I would've choose law too,

She, I mean, she did have a, what is called, from Philippines, she did have a law background.

Yes. So, yeah. So the knowledge is there. It's just the language barrier. exactly.

Exactly. And also being able to do law in most countries requires a lot of intellect and also grit and like . Perseverance. So I think she had that going as well. I only noticed after my friend told me he was a friend who lived in Australia for a while, Finnish Guy. And he was like a lot of German exchange students when they come and they were looking for somewhere to stay. He had a place that he could rent them, but they wouldn't necessarily come to his one, they would go to another place with the German because they wanted to just stay in the comfort zone. And so, which raises this kind of question, like, how integration is a huge factor in this. How do you feel like you have integrated yourself into Finland?

Hmm.

In terms of like, in a way that can help with the language.

I will try to be the only Asian in the room.

Okay.

In, in a lot of situation. but, uh, for example, so I will say in, in the past. Two, three years. I feel like I intergrate more in the society or in the finnish way of living on a daily basis.

More than I have had the 10 years before

Okay.

By how? 'cause I go to the school in Finnish .

Okay.

that's really big help.

Which school is this?

this was a public school. like the hairdressing, the hairdressing school. Okay. Yeah. The hairdressing school.

Yeah.

So, I was in public school and then they put me in, uh S2, so like the, uh, yeah, the second finnish as a second language. Yeah. So they put me in there and I don't have any Native Finnish speaker there as a classmate. And I have my classmate also actually even lower level of finnish than me mine, And it's really frustrated me. So after one year I drop out that, because I'm like, I can't stand that. I have been requesting that I want to be with the Finnish group. . With the native speaker group. Because one of my biggest goal to go to school and finnish is to improve my finnish as well,

a hundred percent.

I switched to private school where I'm the. Well, we have two or three non-native speaker there. . But the other people actually have really good level of finnish as well. Okay. So then everything is in finnish. My, my, teacher also push it that they speak finnish to me all the time. . And they have seen me grow through the years of studying there. And they mentioned that your finnish has gotten so much better. . Like everyone mentioned that how much my finnish improve in a year. . So in a year of me spending time in the public system and in a private institution where I surround myself with native speaker.

Yeah.

Completely different level.

Right.

you have to be a stupid person in the room. When you learn something, you have to be the stupid person in the room

You have to be comfortable. You have to learn to be comfortable being that.

You have to be able to put yourself in a class where you are like, I only understand half of this.

Yeah.

Because that's other half would motivate you. for me, that would motivate me to learn so that I can be better it forced me to concentrate as well, because once you don't understand it, then of course you have to concentrate more.

Right. Right.

so that's like definitely something that I consciously make myself to put myself into it. Okay.

Okay.

Surround yourself with native speaker.

Right.

Or people who doesn't speak English even better.

Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I had a guest mentioned that as well. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, so in your case, the integration is just like the education that you had, you try to have yourself with. finnish people and just go out of your comfort zone and Okay. And then also just in work as well, finnish and, okay. And do. Okay. The next question is, do you have any groups in your life who you could force to kind of speak, finnish with you, but I guess that is already work. And then, what junior education stage?

I'm trying to speak in finnish with my boyfriend. It's so funny. he actually has speak, his English has been improving because he talked to me, so now maybe my finnish can improve too.

Try to flip the table. Okay.

But yeah, he explained to me so many fun, funny finnish stuff and he's finnish. I think it's good.

Gotcha.

like, you should speak in , finnish so I can improve my finnish too. Yeah.

that was a huge help for me. I had a, my, the person I was dating in 2022 was native. So

yeah, I think trust my ex is British. That's how my English improve as well. I think that's fastest way to learn a language. You date a person, then you force yourself to speak to the native language with the person. They gonna teach you so many things.

I remember when in 22 when I was like, if anyone speaks Finnish, we're only speaking Finnish. And then it was such a big issue in the relationship because the quality of the relationship goes down a lot because of the

That's the problem.

Communication. Yeah. But I was very stubborn about this goal. If I'm gonna live here, there was no way that I'm gonna diminish the quality of my life generally, just because I know it's just gonna be one painful year. Then after that it's just go. I didn't mean that. I, uh, I just like, it's just that smooth sailing going upwards, after Yeah, that's gonna be hilarious. It's just gonna be hilarious. but anyways, yeah. One difficult year, then it's gonna be, smooth sailing after that. right. And so, yeah, I had to just kind of push through. I mean, on the days when I was super tired or like, every now and then, I would just like, okay, now we,

How do you flirt in finnish Honestly,

you don't.

Exactly. You don't.

You find somebody who already loves you.

It's impossible. I dunno how

someone who already is into you. And then

I have once

speak finnish

I have once going on a date where this guy sitting 30 minutes not saying anything to me. Like I just, whenever I ask him, he answer it like. That's it. And that's it. Yeah. And he's not trying to conversate.

Yeah.

It's crazy. this was in English. Well, I'm, I'm still doing, I can't, but, and finnish.

that's, that's, so

Okay.

I can only say the very basic things.

fine.

Yeah. Just super simple things, like, maybe you say something and then I misinterpret it as a joke.

Actually, that was something that I think my weakness in Finnish is to express my emotion in Finnish. I can't still do it very well. I can do it better in English. So that's why I always joke with people that I'm like stupid and boring in Finnish. Because I am so, like it's a new personality.

It's a whole new personality.

Yeah. Well, they have mentioned that you have a different personality when you speak different languages. . So that for sure. nowadays, I don't even identify my personality with Vietnamese anymore. I sound stupid in Vietnamese as well. English is my choice. Yeah. I speak with my parents, then I have to speak in Vietnamese That struggle Is real. I need my sister to translate things for me. I would turn to her and ask okay, what this word in Vietnamese? Tell, tell her. What is that in Vietnamese?

Oh yeah.

another memory is I have a hairdresser. Mm-hmm. She speak the same three language with me. Okay. So Vietnamese, English and Finnish finnish. . So we speak mainly in Finnish, but sometime we just like switch the word one word or two word in different language. . So our conversation is in three languages. It's so fun. I love that ability. I'm like, nobody would understand this conversation. Ever the chance of somebody that understand that conversation is so small.

Very, very, yeah. Very small.

And then if they are, because it switch in the middle of the sentence as well, if you don't know the way people speak, you couldn't catch it either.

Oh, it's such a cheat code when you know a language with somebody and you travel abroad.

Yeah. It's just,

yeah.

Me and my boyfriend travel to Paris immediately. Switch to finnish. finnish.

It's like, yeah.

we can shit about everyone.

Yeah. from Okay. From your experience, when people don't succeed at learning finnish, what would you think has usually been the reason or the most common reasons?

I think that, Like the thing I mentioned before, thinking that it's too hard Yeah. To study. Yeah. And yeah, the shyness, you are afraid. You are afraid of making mistakes. Well that, that's a very, for me personally, it's a very Asian things as well, right? Mm-hmm. We are afraid of making mistake and we, we always hold ourself and our things into higher standard, you know? Yeah. That, unless you produce a perfectly correct sentence, you shouldn't speak. . So then that's that kind of holding people back. I think that's for many

I think, that's also very common of people who have had good grades at school.

Mm.

My pronunciation and finnish is very good. So when I speak, people think that I should know you speak better.

Yeah.

That I should know, finnish, but I know that I don't know Finnish, and then it's like my grammar is like quite weak. So then as I'm speaking, I just feel myself sounding stupid. but at the same time it's like, Hey, you know you're gonna have to, I have to get over it. 'cause there's no way around it.

for me,

yeah.

Someday my confidence level is different. . And with different people with diff on different day. Yeah. And the day that I have less confidence about my speaking, . It is harder to understand me. It is harder for people to understand me because I start doubting myself mid-sentence. And that makes the words kind of mix up together and it's harder for them to understand what you're saying

Right?

Like, I don't care the conjunction, but you got the word.

Yeah. every time I've had to talk to kids. you know how kids don't really have a filter, they don't know what is being mean or they just know truth. every time I have to talk to kids I'm so nervous because it's like, I know. when is somebody gonna just say something mean?

Okay. Not something mean. But I feel like they are too shy to talk to me because they can hear the accent. They can hear that we don't speak native and we looks different.

then they are like.

No, for me, I usually just, because I like just chatting with kids or whatever, and so I would just say something, but then in the middle of seeing the thing, I'm like, Ugh. I start feeling self-conscious. Like, what if, you know, this is the moment when, you know.

No, but, I think, yeah. 'cause I have kids at work, right? I cut, uh, kids hair as well. So I'm trying to talk to them, but they're like, I don't wanna talk to this person. And I'm feeling so self-conscious. Is it my accent? Is it how I look? I don't know. Maybe they're shy with everyone. It could be. That's the thing.

Yeah,

So maybe you just have to ignore it all and

Yeah. You have more of a full conversation because it's a bit more one-on-one. In my case, it's just like, maybe I see a parent with a kid. I just wanna say something.

Express something.

Or then maybe I've had situations where I've been part of a project where I have to go in front of a class and say something to the kids. So it's not really a one-on-one conversation. It's just like I'm kind of shy that I'm gonna say something stupid or I'm gonna sound funny. And then they're gonna say that, Hey, that man over there sounds funny. And then I'm gonna have nightmare about it.

Yeah. So we all have this fear in our head. And I think that's the fear of not being able to learn it. Yeah. The fear of making mistake Yeah. Sounding stupid. But I think that's, that's probably the biggest thing, holding us back . Yeah. From learning it and, well, a lot things. Yeah. Not just finnish, but very common since it's in this context, it just being comfortable

being cringe.

Yeah. Probably that's the strength at this point.

I feel like that's one of the things I got comfortable with because I might not even have done a podcast if I hadn't gotten this level of comfortable with being, I don't know, in a quote, cringe.

don't take yourself too seriously. Yeah. That helps.

definitely. But, okay. So

not another thing in life, but in this context, yes.

Yeah. from your experience, things that, prevent people from succeeding shyness. And what do you feel like you did that others do not often do in this language learning journey?

Speak,

just force yourself to speak. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

Alright. let me kind

actually,

yeah,

I think I know maybe one Vietnamese friends

mm-hmm.

Who also, speak Finnish. Okay. as a daily, part of their life now. Okay. So that's, I think the only Vietnamese friend I know that can do that. So my other Vietnamese friend, none of them speak finnish.

Okay.

So it's still unfortunately a rare thing to come by.

How long has your friend been in Finland?

We came on the same plane.

Oh wow. Okay.

Yeah.

Um, lemme switch from language based questions for a while just to, humanize my guest. I mean, you clearly have a lot of personality and that has shown a lot in the conversation we're having. But, uh, just random question, uh, what food reminds you the most of your childhood?

Braised, pork belly, maybe

Rice, pork belly brace. Braised pork. Pork belly. Okay. Was there some specific memory attached to this? Like, or why is this, what, why does it remind you someone? I

think it's just something that my, uh, I used to have for breakfast with some sticky rice, or like, my mom and my grandma usually make those for dinner.

Right. So the story with this, like something mom and grandmother.

How is it related?

No, I just ask 'cause now we're asking sort of technical questions. Yeah. But I wanted to ask something that kind of gives an opportunity for the, my guests to also just express that, tell about their human side, you know, just maybe a little bit. Okay, so there are like six parts to a learning a language, at least my opinion, six parts to learning a language. And we're just gonna kind of quickly go through them that you just say that different things that you did in order to improve on that part. The things are vocabulary, speaking, listening, grammar, reading, and then writing. Right? So, for vocabulary in, let's say the first seven years, or first six years, how did you improve your vocabulary or increase vocabulary?

Probably through flashcard. So like you seek out the, word list for your level. Mm-hmm. And then you put it in flashcard. So you are learning very, very passively.

Okay.

Yeah. yeah, I would say, and then, and then later on, then you will try, I would try to read without consult the dictionary

without consulting.

Yeah. Okay. So then I would try to guess the meaning of the word through the context and through other words that in the, that I known in the sentence. . Before I have to fetch out the dictionary. Okay. Sometime I will still do have to fetch out the dictionary, but I try to avoid that.

And how were you getting the new words to add to the word list?

like to adhere

Where were they coming from?

usually, nowadays it's coming from documented news if I read.

Okay.

But, otherwise before that it can comes from any books.

In the early days, especially like first Yeah. In the early one six years.

I think, uh, suomen mestari always have a sanasto for every, for vocabulary unit. Okay. Vocabulary list for every unit. Could be a good place to start.

Okay.

If they are looking for that. yeah.

Okay. Okay. And then, with speaking, how did you improve that

speak? seriously speak. Um, speak out loud. Yeah. Uh, if you write something, you read something, you speak for now that I'm learning Swedish, I'm learning it using dwelling, so it's pretty slow. Okay. but then I, um. I, every time I type a sentence, I also speak out loud, even though it's not a speaking exercise. Right. But every time you speak, it's also adhere to your head. Yeah. To your brain. you remember it better. Yeah. And then, you practice your pronunciation and the intonation

Right.

then later on when you are comfortable speaking to people Speak everywhere as much as you could. As far down of the conversation as you could.

And then in your case, you had the opportunity to speak in the finnish courses that you did.

Yeah.

And then in, work?

Yeah, work and,

well now

I work and finnish, every day.

I mean, no, I'm talking now more about the earlier years.

earlier years, yeah.

So work and then in the courses. And then, what other scenarios?

That's it, I think.

Okay.

Yeah. And then what about with listening? my focus mainly on the first six-ish years.

Better to listen to those, selkouutiset. . Like those thing, because they speak clearer. . And they also speak more proper as well. So you learn the right structure. .

those podcasts, or YouTube that I mentioned before as well. . Those are good listening material. those are probably the listening exercise from suomen mestari those book as well if you have access to those.

Right, right.

Because I think suomen mestari, the good thing about it is that it's approach the language in very like, structured skill, . So they make sure to include all of the skill in that book. Right? So that's why it's a good book to start.

Okay. do you remember which podcast you were listening to?

the podcast it was an old podcast, but they no longer make, a new episode. Okay. But if you type finnish into Spotify, it should come up.

Okay. Gotcha. And then, what about grammar? How did you improve grammar?

the website

and the books that you used.

Yeah, the book.

And okay, so that's how you improve the grammar How did you improve the reading?

Reading? I read the selkouutiset

right.

I think that's the easiest to read and it's useful as well.

because the structure of the, and read all of the, you know, on the ilmoitus, that you come up with, like, you come by, you know, every time you see a notification somewhere, you just go and read it.

Oh, like add, add basically

add on notification, in the building they have some notification of something happening and try to read those and try to understand.

Right. Okay.

I think that's very useful because. If you talk about YKI, that's exactly what they give you in YKI, right?

They give you something like an email, like the spam email that they sent to you. Right.

Or, you know, if there's been a data breach, leaked emails. and then how did you prac, oh wait, hold on. Writing. think of the reading one again, but Okay. Yeah. How did you practice the writing?

That's, hard. usually, that's strictly for me was the workbook,

right?

So just writing,

yeah,

write like those, uh, exercise.

Just from the exercise. Okay. I think, that's one of the ones that I didn't. Put so much effort on. So it's one of the weaker skills that I have.

Most people, even native speaker, have writing the Weakest.

okay.

it's one of the harder language, skill to, to, to master. Yeah. Because it's also have the nuance of like being able to write and being able to write well. Those are two different things. Very good point. Yeah. Yeah. So, so native, even native speaker, some of them. When they, some of my friends going back to university, they are nervous about their entrance exam because they said they haven't been able to, they haven't written improper finnish in so long, Exactly. if you have to write an essay If you have to write an actual opinion piece, yeah. That could be still a struggle for native speaker. So those things everyone has their writing skill is the weakest.

Yeah. So those are the six. And tell me the times when you found it, most difficult to kind of chase down that goal of learning finnish.

I struggle with getting the. Nuance of the language, how, like when is it funny and when people speaking too fast or like, nowadays it's really hard to eve drop the whole conversation, for example. Okay. Like to be able to follow it, I, I probably get lost at some point because I still need to completely focus on something in order to understand it.

Right.

Fully even, or maybe 80% I'd say.

Okay.

Yeah. So that's something I'm still at this point, I have an okay level of the language, but at the same time, I still don't speak it like I speak English.

Okay.

So I don't know how I get there, but

Right.

It's where it's frustrate me a little at this point.

Right. But like motivation wise, you mean? I mean, motivation wise. Yeah. it's hard.

I don't think that it's too hard to learn, but sometimes it's hard.

Yeah.

But it's still very hard.

Other moments, in your timeline where you found it like Difficult, motivation wise just felt like giving up?

at least I don't remember those moment anymore. Okay.

did they ever happen something like that?

Maybe once or twice in the first few years. What school? You learn and you are like, what is this? And people don't even speak like this. Right,

right. Okay. Gotcha.

That's where you're frustrated.

Gotcha.

When you, you realize that, people don't speak like this, right.

Yeah. Yeah. And, um. What words of encouragement can you give to anyone who's feeling down or, feels fed up with, with like, uh, feeling like giving up with the learning of the language?

Don't,

straight off just like Nike. Just do it. Yeah. Just don't,

No, but, I think actually one of the things I find refreshing is that I say that, The time that I have to move abroad mm-hmm. To Spain or to Holland Where I have to learn another language. So obviously at that time frame I don't learn, finnish anymore.

Right. Right.

So I go completely learn another language. Right. then I come back to finnish. And then for somehow it's make it easier for me. It's like taking a break, giving your brain a break. I think It's similar with, muscle memories. It's similar to weight training. If you train intensively for a long time And then you take a one week break Or some people take two weeks then you come back. Yeah. And the day you come back, you lift heavier than any other day you have done before You work your PR on that day. But because your muscle and your brain need time to rest. But it still retain the connection. And then when you come back to it, it could come back stronger.

This is interesting

So that maybe if you lose motivation with learning finnish Yeah. Maybe just, okay, go learn Swedish or something else.

Yeah. I don't, this is complete anecdotal, anecdotal and I don't have any science to back it up, but I've realized at least because I, I used to play football and then I stopped and then years later I went back to play football again. I noticed that my ability to recognize patterns

Yeah.

Was so much better.

You are more sensitive to it.

Than when I used to play and I was like, I didn't even notice these things when I was playing. what changed?

Exactly. it's almost like when you do, it's intensively, your brain got overload, but when it's completely free of that. Yeah. Like things you are trying to learn, then it has time for, you know, I have been reading some book about neurology, neurology. Yeah. And our brain retain information like that. It needs time in the rem sleep to retain information because it's need time to sort out those information.

Right.

maybe that's why this is not signed back. I just think that you need the break for your brain to actually retain the thing you want to.

So you're saying I should sleep more?

Yes, definitely. Should sleep more. Everyone should sleep more. If you want to be more efficient work, Productively you should sleep more .

Okay. we'll keep that in mind. So

looks prettier.

yeah. To look prettier. Yeah. I'm interested in that. Yes. I could use a few more, pretty points.

Yeah.

and how has your life become better now that you live in a country where you speak the language?

I think it's really nice. I think that people, stop seeing you, for just how you look. Mm. And people really only see you for you more, you know? if you think about, stereotype on stereotype, You see, if you see an Asian girl, you, she doesn't speak Finnish then, oh, she's, maybe the tourist, maybe somebody who live here short term. You know, they, they don't, they immediately rule out. because it's short term. Yeah. They, if, if, okay. One thing I have learned from moving, abroad many, many countries mm-hmm. And then making friends and making connection, is that at some point in life. People wouldn't want to make short term connection anymore when they make connection with someone. they have to have a purpose. this sounds very coldhearted, but it's true because if you were born and raised and reside here for long term, you cannot have time for all of the new connection coming in your way all the time.

Right? Right.

When you make new friends, you want to know that if I have the, future with this person, like do I know them 10 years down the line? . When my life circumstances changes? . Or like, are they, are they beneficial for my business? Or something like that. So there's, there must be a longer term, you know, like when people make connection. if you speak the language, people Think of that more, the longer term of the potential of the connection they make. Right. So they are more re reception to understand you or to know you as a person rather than ryle you out immediately. Like, oh, this person is tourist, someone living here short term. Yeah. I don't want to make this kind of connection anymore. Sure.

short term Connection anymore.

If I don't travel the world, it's different for everyone, but I'm saying if people choose to reside and live here permanently, which means that 70% of people we are surrounded by, then they would think of it that way. Hmm. So in a way, I think that people are more. I'm more open. They are also, I don't know, maybe I look more finnish now than I used to be before people start speaking to me in finnishing state of English as their first. Language of choice. . So, so yeah. So then people would, like, you'll see Stranger on the street talking to you just to express something like, oh, that's so terrible. Or something like that. So old people or like, you can see that you can make that little small connections more, you know, interaction in your day. And that happens a lot more. So maybe you feel less lonely in that sense. Hundred percent. yeah.

So I think it always helps. And Finnish people really appreciate when you speak their language because they themselves know that it's hard.

I've been having lately where. in the place I just moved to where people are just sitting on the park bench and then I walk past and they start talking to me and then we'll start talking and finnish.

Yeah.

Speaking to me in, in, in finnish and then I'm able to partake in such conversations. but if it was in English, then the number of people who I could engage like that with are much less

because they themselves also have that fear of making mistake when they speak English as well. Yeah. So they would not speak to you because they themselves have that as well. Yeah. So some people of course don't let that affect how they, let's say, interact with other people around because they are social. But then otherwise, if I can avoid it for sure. Yeah. And you know how timid they're could be.

Yeah.

Could be.

I often have interacted where I find somebody attractive and I try to talk to them, and then,

ah, we,

we talked about this.

you said it on Instagram. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then I realized that, they don't speak. They, they have, they're having that moment where they're like, they can communicate, but they're not comfortable communicating because. It's English.

Ah, okay. Yeah, yeah. So then you approach them in English.

And then there's a whole thing and I'm like, ah, it's fine, it's fine. Just let it go. And then we just move on.

that's that limit your choice, right? That limits your opportunities for sure. But at the same time, you have to think about longer term with that person if you cannot communicate in the language that you're comfortable with So No go either. Because you have that experience before.

yeah. So that's, there's all of that to kind of deal with, but

there's a, yeah. Your loss.

I don't know if it's my loss.

well everyone I guess it's a limitation of choice.

Yeah. I mean, I can speak Finnish, I just. Prefer my personality in English.

You can't really Flirt as we already established.

yeah.

None of us can.

Yeah. This has been fun. This has been fun.​